II and IV

[Josh]

Anyone have any opinions on the II and IV chords, from a theory point of view? I'm just curious because these chords are so similar. In some music theory books II-V is the standard full candence and in others it's IV-V. One book says that it's II-V but justifies IV by saying that it's a II7 without a root.

[JBMichaels]

Think of II and IV as slightly different shades of the same color. In classical harmony the IV-V progression is strong, but the II-V is even stronger, since the bass moves by a fourth up or fifth down....Key of c....movement is II-V-I dminor-g major-c major. The bass moves from d then up a fourth or down a fifth to g then down another fifth to c. This is probably the strongest chord progression to outline a key. The IV chord and II chord really serve the same harmonic function albeit with slightly different flavors.

[StoneDragon]

heh heh... if all them old powdered wig guys hadn't been afraid of minor chords, they all would have been playing jazz http://www.zentao.com/ubb/smilies/movingeyes.gif

[JBMichaels]

actually, you do see II-V-I progressions in Bach and others. However the third of the II chord is often raised, and functions as a V chord the V chord. in jazz we call this chord substitution! One minor point: actually the II chord should be written as ii, because it is a minor chord in a major key. A chord appearing as II, (second scale step, but a Major chord, implies a modal harmony.

[Guitarzan]

One minor point: actually the II chord should be written as ii, because it is a minor chord in a major key. A chord appearing as II, (second scale step, but a Major chord, implies a modal harmony.

And the man that was talking to the dog rolled over and looked him straight in the eye, sort of staring in disbelief, and said...

YOU CAN'T SAY THAT!

A minor point. - No pun intended of course http://www.zentao.com/ubb/smilies/think.gif

Hopefully, One day, as my learning progresses, I'll understand what you just said.

http://www.zentao.com/ubb/smilies/smokin.gif

[StoneDragon]

I told him, "No! No! No!" He said, "Yes! Yes! Yes!"

Ain't this boogie a mess?

Check out my chord scale lesson (http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/chord-scale.html) for an explanation on Roman numerals and chords. There's also going to be some stuff in the next beginner lesson dealing with this.

Stay tuned!