mode vs chord, what makes the mood

[marcuscw]

i;m tryin to figure out what really sets the mood for a song, cause i dont have the feeling that just playing in a certain mode really makes a song feel like a love song for instance. so is this the chord progression or a diffirent aproach to modes ? is there a certain formula that makes a song sound like a love song? is it leaving out certain notes in a mode ? you guys get what i mean ?
i have the feeling a mode is kind of a starter for the mood or something, but not completely it.

[anthony2]

I would say ascending or descending intervals is pretty important, that is simply put whether you play A then C, or you play C then A.

I would also say singing is extremely important. A lot of emotion is conveyed in the voice. I've heard some supposed love songs, particularly from heavier bands, that don't really sound so much like love songs at all, yet more like sadastic death threats. And it's mostly in the voice. Just speaking the same words can have different meanings just from the tone of voice, and when placed over music they can support the music or create a contrast.

You might also notice that a lot of love songs use the piano, as well as a variety of other instruments. Flutes, violins, trumpets, and so on. Listen closely for them, and you will hear them. Even Metallica has gone to playing with a symphony in the background.

[JonR]

i;m tryin to figure out what really sets the mood for a song, cause i dont have the feeling that just playing in a certain mode really makes a song feel like a love song for instance. so is this the chord progression or a diffirent aproach to modes ? is there a certain formula that makes a song sound like a love song? is it leaving out certain notes in a mode ? you guys get what i mean ?
i have the feeling a mode is kind of a starter for the mood or something, but not completely it.You're about right.

The mood of a song is governed by several things:
(1) tonality (major key, minor key, mode)
(2) tempo / rhythm
(3) chord types (qualities and extensions)
(4) melodic phrasing (suspensions, long/short notes, etc)
(5) instrumentation / orchestration
(6) volume / dynamics
(7) vocal register
etc.

(1) modes can be arranged in order of brightness-darkness (there's no other mood difference between them):

Lydian 1-2-3-#4-5-6-7
Ionian (major key) 1-2-3-4-5-6-7
Mixolydian 1-2-3-4-5-6-b7
Dorian 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7
Aeolian (minor key) 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
Phrygian 1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
(Locrian 1-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7 - darkest, but difficult to use as the tonality for a song.)

As you can see, increased "darkness" is achieved by flattening one note in the scale each time.

However, the tonality can easily be outweighed by the other factors, esp (2).
Generally, the slower the tempo, the more "down" the mood - pretty obviously, right? This applies to major or minor keys, and all modes.
The simpler the chord types and sequence, the faster the music, the happier it will sound (even in minor keys).
Complex rhythms, at least if danceable, can also contribute happiness or brightness. (The only difference a minor key makes is to make things a little more "intense" - "darker" without being necessarily "sad".)

Melancholy moods can be easily achieved in major keys with slow tempos and chords such as maj7s, maj9s, add9s. Try these (4 beats each chord, keep it medium/slow, repeat ad lib)

Emaj7 Amaj7
--4-----|---4------|
--4-----|---5------|
--4-----|---6------|
--6-----|---7------|
--7-----|---0------|
--0-----|---0------|
Wistful. huh? Not sad necessarily, but good for a tender love song. (This is a I-IV in E major.)
Warning: sickly sweet if overdone!

Compare with these two:
Eadd9 Aadd9
--0-----|---0------|
--0-----|---2------|
--1-----|---4------|
--4-----|---2------|
--2-----|---0------|
--0-----|---0------|
Different mood, right? Not as melancholy, more poignant or yearning, perhaps. They almost sound as if they're "looking ahead", while the maj7s are nostalgic, "looking back". (This is also a I-IV in E major, but could be a V-I in A major.)

Now compare the difference if we make those chords minor:

Emadd9 Amadd9
--0-----|---0------|
--0-----|---0------|
--0-----|---5------|
--4-----|---7------|
--2-----|---0------|
--0-----|---0------|
Now we have some seriously doomy, depressed chords, right?
So minor does make a difference. But it's still those 9ths that govern the mood, that give the chords their special "tang".

There was a Yardbirds song in the mid-60s called "Still I'm Sad" - minor key, lots of doomy monk-like chanting. But its centre-piece, the chord that accompanied the title phrase, was that Emadd9 chord. It was as if they'd just discovered that chord and wrote the whole song around it.


You can get bluesier and funkier moods with various dom7 variations, such as 9ths and 7#9s.
Jazz is also where you can find people experimenting with the modal qualities of single chords, such as 7sus4 (mixolydian) and m11 (dorian).
Modal jazz (whatever the mode) has its own mood, different from "functional" jazz.
In traditional key-based music (major or minor) you have a lot of chords moving around between consonance and dissonance - usually in fact with various levels of dissonance. The music is "restless", until it hits its tonic chord (I). This music can get highly emotional and deep (Beethoven is probably at the classical peak of this kind of music).
We still use this kind of sound in pop music, for singalong choruses, etc. Key-based chord sequences can sweep you up and carry you along.

Modal music, OTOH, is more static and reflective. It sits around on one chord, one "mood", and explores the melodic possibilities of the scale/mode.
Indian ragas are the epitome of this kind of music, but you also get it in jazz (as I said) and in rock. It can be highly complex, melodically or rhythmically, but its harmony is static - no chord "sequences".

[marcuscw]

wooww thnx man!! that chords comparing is realy cool!! i;m started recently tryin to know all chords in as many possible ways but these chords realy set a mood right away!! and really cool ones 2 :D much better than the average power chord stuff. great decriptions of the moods also! i really wanna get good at creating different moods and these are great examples! and that Emadd9, i can understand it if they did that cause this is my first discovery of this chord also and i love it :p gives really a kind of creepy horrory type o mood, and its especially cool with that Amadd9 after it, another chord i never played, or at least in that position!!
is there any material that covers these 'mood creations' by chords, or should i just continue learnin all the chords? but i think its also the sequence of the two chords. those you showed just really sound great together.
that Emaj7 Amaj7 really gives me an old school motown/soul love flavour :D i wanna become really good at this

[crusty]

I love this subject :) Psychological aspects of music. JonR gives a good overview. There are a few points I'll add. One is chromatism. This is a tool that is used in just about every love song ever written. Here's an example:

Take a simple 1950's cliche chord progression:

C Am F G

Now play it like this:

C Am F G | C Am F G | C Am F Fm | C (let the Fm ring for a few beats)

Going from F to Fm to C has the chromatic notes A, Ab, G which has a nice emotional effect.

That brings me to my next point. By sustaining the Fm, you are deliberately emphasizing the "out of key" note. On this chord should come the the tear jerker lyric. (my personal rule here is never use the words "i love you" in a song or you're in some really sappy territory :) )

Along similar lines, all sorts of chord changes can evoke strong emotional responses, especially when the two chords aren't normally found in the same scale. Some examples:

Cmaj7 Dmaj7
Fmaj7 Gbm7
E7 Bbm7
Amaj7 Am7

anthony2 made a good point as well when he mentioned ascending and descending intervals. Melodic lines that move higher in pitch have a lighter, or building effect and can be used to emphasize a phrase or lyric. Certain intervals also have strong emotional significance. Upward melodic leaps of minor and major 6ths are often found in love songs.

EDIT:

Forgot to mention parallel major and minor keys. This is a tool that is often used in love songs. This is a really old concept that goes back to the romantic era of the 1800's. You basically borrow chords from the parallel minor:

C major: C Dm Em F G7 Am Bdim
C minor: Cm Ddim Eb Fm G7 Ab Bdim

The most common chord to borrow is the bVI (Ab in C major)

Example:

C Am F G | C Am Ab / | C / / / | Ab / Fm / | Dm7b5 / G7 / | C

[marcuscw]

thnx :D another great lesson! i love that 50s chord progression and what happens when you mix in the Fm!! real eyeopener! after that Fm it really screams for a corny lyric :p or maybe not corny but you know what i mean :p

[JonR]

The idea behind all those borrowings from the parallel minor is to add darkness or mystery to a plain major key sound.

The borrowed major chords (Eb, Ab and Bb in key of C) contribute a bluesy drama and toughness. It's a standard thing in rock music, and was common in vintage 60s soul and R&B.
(In rock and jazz, you sometimes find borrowings from phrygian mode, which is basically a major chord on the bII step. But don't confuse this with the tritone sub. E.g., in C major, Db7 (before C) is a tritone sub for G7; Dbmaj7 OTOH is a borrowed phrygian bII. They do sound different.)

The minor chords from the parallel minor (esp the iv, Fm in key of C) are great for that extra something in a major key.
You can do it the cheesy way, which is to follow the major IV with the minor (C-C7-F-Fm... you've heard that a million times!) - or you can just use the minor IV instead of the major.
Radiohead do this a lot, and (IMO) it's major part of their sound. You get it crucially in "My Iron Lung" and "No Surprises". The latter, eg, is totally within the F major key, with the deliberately sweet, uncomplicated feel that provides (underlined by the pretty "music-box" arpeggios) - except for the Bbm chord, which adds the essential spooky undertow that's important for the theme of the song.
The Beatles also used the minor IV quite a lot - not so much for spookiness, but definitely for a kind of sideways, knowing wink - implying a greater depth to the mood than the (major key) rest of the song suggests.

The rule (if there is one!) is that you can use ANY chord you like (from any key), as long as you can relate it in some way to the song's key centre (directly or indirectly), or directly to a chord immediately before or after.
IOW, you need to be able to assign it a roman numeral function, a logical place in the progression. (Although this is only a theoretical "explanation" of why certain chords sound right and others don't.)
IOW, never lose sight of the "home" key - but don't worry about going outside it; just don't go so far you lose touch with "home" :smile:

Like all special effects, these things shouldn't be overdone, but they're great tools for that special moment. But be sure to restrict them to an occasion where their sound is appropriate. Great songwriting means that the theme of the song (the lyrical ideas) is reflected in the chords and structure of the tune.
IE not only in the chords: eg, the Beatles "Strawberry Fields Forever" is full of disjointed rhythms, unexpected changes, weird orchestration effects - because it's about being unsure of oneself, having confused memories. "Penny Lane" in contrast is a sweetly nostalgic tune in a major key, trotting along in a vintage swing feel - but with some quizzical minor borrowings for fun; suggesting maybe things aren't quite what they seem, but not in a scary way.
Staying with the Beatles, the constant use of suspensions in the melody of "Yesterday" contributes hugely to its wistful, yearning effect.
This is not something they necessarily planned consciously. Eg, "Yesterday" began as a tune with no lyrics. But McCartney recognised that emotional effect in the melody, and so wrote lyrics to fit.
(Key-wise, "Yesterday" switches constantly between the major and relative minor, using the classical ascending melodic minor scale, which is what gives it its "baroque" sound - underlined by the string arrangement. This switching between major and minor contributes a sense of shifting ground: an unsure mix of positive and negative; something good that's been lost. You can't always plan such a perfect mix - you work intuitively and sometimes get lucky. But it can help to have some insight into these mechanisms.)

[crusty]

IOW, never lose sight of the "home" key - but don't worry about going outside it; just don't go so far you lose touch with "home"

Or at least know how to find your way home again - plan the path home. It's like going for a walk through the woods. You may not know where you're headed, but you always need to know how to get back. Generally on your walk you just go back the way you came. I'd extend this metaphor further and say, how did I get back to the tonic chord before? Can I simply go from my drama chord through the same sequence of chords I used before and end up back at the tonic?

Example:
C Am F G C F#m Am F G C

The F#m comes as a surprise, but sounds ok moving to the Am which leads via the origianl progression back to the tonic C.

[marcuscw]

woww lots of study material :D im gonna get those radio head songs to listen what you mean :D

[JonR]

I just thought of another classic Beatles' example, from one of their earliest tunes:

|E |E7 |A |C |
|I'll never |dance with a-|nother, |oooh! |
The C is a borrowed bVI from the parallel minor key (E minor). It's also basically the same thing as the E-E7-A-Am sequence I mentioned earlier. The C is basically just a more dramatic version of the Am. (You could play Am with a C bass, same effect.)
They accentuate the dramatic chord by syncopating it too. What with the falsetto and the head-shaking, no wonder the girls screamed... :smile:

Here's another:

|Em | |A7 | |
She loves you yeah yeah yeah, she loves you yeah yeah yeah
|Cm6 |D7+ D7 |G |
with a love like that, you know you should be glad
A bit more complicated here. The key is G major, so we have a chromatic chord in the A7. The Cm6 is a minor iv, borrowed from the parallel G minor key - and the D7+ is also a suggestion of G minor, with the A#/Bb melody note. (A jazz chart might write Cm6 as Am7b5, ii chord of G minor.) But the resolution to G major brightens the sound again.
It's as if by slipping into the minor, the music is saying "think about this for a minute" - just as the lyrics are! - and then brightening to major because he "should be glad". A "love like that" (the implication is) is not some trivial thing to be dismissed - it's serious. That's the effect of the minor borrowing: not sadness, but added depth or intensity.
I'm not saying the Beatles did all this consciously :rolleye: - they just found sounds that seemed to fit, without beating their brains out over why.
IOW, they found by experiment how those minor chords worked, and didn't know or care whether you were "supposed" to use them or not.
No doubt they'd heard similar sounds in the jazz and show tunes they (esp McCartney) listened to.

[6equj5]

A ton of great stuff in this thread, thanks guys. A lot of it demonstrates the truism "mode" does not equal "mood," which was your intuition. "Mood" is a very complicated thing, right? At least some of what mood is created is definitely gonna depend (esp. in instrumental music, which is my thing) on the listeners past experiences, expectations, and biases. I would think that some of the most important mood ingredients (perhaps very roughly in order) that are under your control would be melody, tone, instrumentation, tempo, rhythm. A mode is a tone set (different use of the word 'tone') from which melodies may be derived, so a mode may be part of a part, so to speak, of determining mood (but JonR made an excellent point in, I think, another thread, about not getting too excited about modes. They're of some use compositionally, analytically and, to a certain extent, improvisitionally, but they're not earth shattering, not gonna change your life!)

[gla]

[QUOTE=JonR]You're about right.



Emaj7 Amaj7
--4-----|---4------|
--4-----|---5------|
--4-----|---6------|
--6-----|---7------|
--7-----|---0------|
--0-----|---0------|
Wistful. huh? Not sad necessarily, but good for a tender love song. (This is a I-IV in E major.)
Warning: sickly sweet if overdone!

Compare with these two:
Eadd9 Aadd9
--0-----|---0------|
--0-----|---2------|
--1-----|---4------|
--4-----|---2------|
--2-----|---0------|
--0-----|---0------|
Different mood, right? Not as melancholy, more poignant or yearning, perhaps. They almost sound as if they're "looking ahead", while the maj7s are nostalgic, "looking back". (This is also a I-IV in E major, but could be a V-I in A major.)

Now compare the difference if we make those chords minor:
[code][tab]
Emadd9 Amadd9
--0-----|---0------|
--0-----|---0------|
--0-----|---5------|
--4-----|---7------|
--2-----|---0------|
--0-----|---0------|
QUOTE]





whats the diff in a Em9 and a Emadd9?

[crusty]

A 9th chord has a 7th while an add9 chord doesn't This goes for both major or minor chords.