Interval question

[zbalz]

I've been at emplive's lick of the day a lot lately since this month is jazz. It taught me a lot already and even got me to get a couple cds of jazz classics.

ANYWAY, in their weekly lesson, the guy mentions the ii,V,I progresson. At first I was playing under the major chord scale(if in key of c, it would be I believe D Minor, G,C). Then I noticed later in the lesson that they were working with 7th chords! After reading stone's lesson I understand where the chords came from.

My problem is that I think ii-V-I can be interpreted in two ways, playing the major chord scale and under 7ths (. If I was having a discussion with someone about music or something and they mention ii-V-I; how do I know which one they are talking about? (or is it that progression is generally accepted as 7ths)

-zbalz

(i gotta quit rambling on with in my questions http://www.zentao.com/ubb/smilies/smile.gif)

[StoneDragon]

You're not rambling... this is a very good question.

There are two things at work here:

1) The ii V I gives you the basic outline (Dmin G C)... what you do with it is up to you and the accepted norms of the style.

2) It is commonly accepted within the jazz style that certain extensions and substitutions can be made to the basic chords to spice things up a bit.

Adding the 7 to each chord is so common that when you see ii V I, you should automatically think ii7 V7 I7 (Dmin7 G7 Cmaj7).

From there, you can start to work with extensions (Dmin9 G13 Cmaj7) alterations (Dmin7 G7#9 Cmaj7#11) and substitutions (D13[substitutes for Dmin7] Db13[substitutes for G7] Emin7/C[substitutes for Cmaj7])

Then you get to figure out what scales to use over each of these chords http://www.zentao.com/ubb/smilies/wink.gif

[zbalz]

Is there any information on how to choose what scale(s) to play in that type of situation. I figured since its a ii-V-I based on the C major scale that I would use C major.

[StoneDragon]

I'm no jazz expert... wish I had the time and inclination to really dig into and internalize that style, but I don't. Instead, what I have done is to try and absorb some of the melodic and harmonic sophistication of the style and apply it to heavy rock music.

Anyway, just sticking to the major scale will work (provided the chords stick to the major scale harmony exclusively), but that will produce a very bland jazz solo. That is unless you are overly fond of the sound of elevator music http://www.zentao.com/ubb/smilies/wink.gif

It's much more common (and interesting) to mix things up a bit.

For example, you might start out with D Dorian (same as C Major) over the Dmin7 then switch to the G Altered Dominant (Melodic Minor up a half step from the root of the chord... in this case, Ab melodic minor) for G7 and then finish up with C Lydian (same as G Major scale) or C Lydian Augmented (Melodic minor down one and a half steps from the root of the chord... in this case A melodic minor). Now that's a little more interesting, don't you think?

(Melodic minor = 1 2 b3 4 5 6 7)

Now, jazz improvisation is much more sophisticated than just running up and down the scale. You've got to play MELODY... the whole purpose of jazz music is the search for the ultimate melodic phrase... spontaneously .... in the moment

It is a very high art form.

I was listening to a couple of sax players trading lines over a vamp the other night. Their sense of melody and timing just floored me!

If you are interested in this type of stuff, I would seriously recommend that you get your hands on Scott henderson's REH video Jazz Fusion Improvisation. In the video, he takes you through each chord type (Maj7, Min7, Min7b5, Dom7 and Altered Dom7) and demonstrates the use of various scales and arpeggios over each.

Here's a few examples:


CMaj7 - C Ionian (major scale), C, F and G triad arpeggios, A, D and E minor pentatonic, C Lydian etc...
Cmin7 - C Dorian, Cmin7 arpeggio, EbMaj7 arpeggio, Eb, F and Bb triads, C, D and G minor pentatonic etc...
C7 - C Mixolydian, Emin7b5 arpeggio, A minor pentatonic, G Melodic Minor, C whole-tone, Gbmin7b5 arpeggio etc....


Have fun http://www.zentao.com/ubb/smilies/tongue.gif