Mish wants a mando

[martinedwards]

Ok, Mish asked me to make her a mando, similar to the on I made for myself.

I relish the opportunity to practice building while someone else picks up the bill for parts (I really don't have the nerve to ask for payment for my time!!!) so yeah MIsh!! Why not!!!

The construction technique will be the same with the back & sides milled from a solid hardwood block and the front carved into an arched top from a softwood block. 3 piece lam neck, scarfed head, rosewood fingerboard, and a slightly wider than standard stringspacing.

Oh yes... left handed body, but strung right handed.... not that she's awkward at all!!!!!

OK the back & sides are being made from recycled hardwood from the concrete plant that my brother manages. Dunno WHAT it is, guesses range from African Mahogany through Afromosa to Iroko, but if it doesn't work as a tonewood I'll bin it and re-do things with mahogany.

ok, here's a plank as I get them.....
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/1plank.jpg
after a run through the circular saw to take off the old tongue & groove, and cut to length.......
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a2cut.jpg
then glued side by side to get a lump big enough to make a mando body.....
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a3glued.jpg

Next we need a truss rod cover.

May as well make a few and keep 'em for later projects.......

first drill a flat bottomed hole with a forstner bit and using the router attachment for my Dremel cut a cross over the hole (you can see the shape of the headstock in the background)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a4trc1.jpg

Then cut circles of Mother of Pearl into quarters and cut some pine into strips to make the body of the celtic cross.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a4trc3.jpg

Epoxy everything into place and leave everything overnight to set good & hard
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a4trc4.jpg
then tomorrow I'll hopefully get the chance to sand away the surplus to leave something like this one i prepared earlier.....
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600028.jpg

[Sexymonkey]

Neat-O!! Whose next in your Mando list? =)

[mishmannah]

WOOOOOT!!!!! I am deeply honoured.


Hey, has that mug got your name on it?

:lmao:

If you guys are puzzled, I requested a lefty body mando with a righty string setup due to the awkward and time consuming nature of making a lefty saddle and nut.

[martinedwards]

Neat-O!! Whose next in your Mando list? =)
is that an offer?

I'll prolly make two in parallel, so if I totally screw one up I can let Mish have the good un!!

[Lazy Bee]

Wow, that's pretty amazing work there bud. Thumbs up!!!

[Vintage Picker]

Wow! you have talent and patience.....both good qualities for musicians, although the latter is sometimes a bit rare.

[martinedwards]

Wow! you have talent .

questionable.....
and patience.....

NOT!!!!!
:D

[ScottRiley]

How much are the parts coming to in total, just out of interest?

[martinedwards]

not counting the wood which is virtually free it's around £55-60
Bone nut, MOP inlay, trussrod, slotted fingerboard, frets, tuners, bridge & tailpiece.

add glue & varnish

Bits & pieces from Stewmac, and those fishscale vomit guys on ebay!!!

[sleekfox]

u are waaaay too modest!! ure instruments look great, and now that i know how u do it im all the more impressed.

i have trouble assembling a kinder egg toy let alone making an mandolin from scratch! u clearly have a passion for this kind of thing which is always good...

so keep up the good work!

[martinedwards]

EDIT!!!!

can a mod sort these pic sizes? I tried to 1/4 them at photo bucket but it hasn't done any good........done and dusted..
ta!!

Back to the story then!!

Alll righty!!!!
today's fun & games!!!

the truss rod covers are finished.....
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a4trc5.jpg

this is what one looks like once it's shaped & oiled in MY mando.....
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a4trc6.jpg

the body of Mish's mando was milled smooth on one side,
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mishmannah/a5milled.jpg

then flipped and forstner bitted out to give the void.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mishmannah/a6forstner.jpg

just a few shavings there!!!!
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a7shavings.jpg

the bottom of this void now needs milled to 3mm thick then I'll start in the top & neck.......

[mishmannah]

this is what one looks like once it's shaped & oiled in MY mando.....
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a4trc6.jpg

Wow /\ amazing. I just love the headstock shape at the top, as I said before, a tribute to McIlroy... :) The truss rod cover completes it beautifully.


Even though that Iroko is beginning to look wonderfully blonde in colour, I really hope it isn't causing any problems with you.:).it's an irritant, isn't it? (Well, so is Western Red Cedar..)

[paul_jam]

so, you taking orders now martin? lol. its looking pretty good so far. liking the covers, and the headstock pictures youve shown to showcase the cover, well, its a cool headstock.

so, when you think you could get me a nice acoustic done by? lol jkin

[kingtriplet2000]

pretty sweet.......

[martinedwards]

Even though that Iroko is beginning to look wonderfully blonde in colour, I really hope it isn't causing any problems with you.:).it's an irritant, isn't it? (Well, so is Western Red Cedar..)
a bit hay fevery, but I dunno if that's the wood or just the fact that it's that time of year.........

I think I'll mill out the rest of the back and then move on to the front to give it a chance to settle. (don't want any splits now do we?!!!) Any probs and I'll fall back onto plan B and use mahogany like my one.

I have a first year class this morning so I should be able to get the top under way then.......

[gavb]

I would very seriously pay you good money for an Edwards custom Mandolin.

[martinedwards]

Ok, lemme finish Mish's and I'll talk to you!!

As long as the wood's free, they'll stay cheap. Once I have to start buying wood, I'll obviously have to pass on the cost!!

[gavb]

Ok, lemme finish Mish's and I'll talk to you!!

As long as the wood's free, they'll stay cheap. Once I have to start buying wood, I'll obviously have to pass on the cost!!

Splendid, that would be absoloutley marvellous. :)

[mishmannah]

/\ You won't regret it, Gav!!

Martin, what wood is the top gonna be made of?

[martinedwards]

Listen to her will ya!!!!

OK, today we had mixed fortunes......

I cut the neck lams
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/b4necklams.jpg

glued them

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a8necklam.jpg

cut them to a scarf joint

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/a9scarfcut.jpg

and glued again.......so far so good

I planed the two edges of the top (pine) and stuck them

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/b2topglued.jpg

Then I milled the back to the desired 3mm
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/b5millingbackflat.jpg

stuck on the crossgrain patch to support the join....

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/b1jionsupport.jpg

and when I came back to it the back had disintegrated!!!!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/b3DISASTER.jpg

Yes, that is LIGHT you can see there!!!!!!

several splits had appeared which is NOT A GOOD THING!!!!!!

Ah well, better now than 15 minutes after Mish had un-packed it!!!

that is marked down to experience and the back will now be mahogany same as my one!!!

ho hum!!!!

[mishmannah]

Awww, no, after all that hard work!!!!!!! :eek: Poor you!

Iroko is a tough material to work with. You've gotta lorra patience, there.

Strange that you did have a hunch that the Iroko was gonna be tricky.

Perhaps the wood was too dry and brittle for the milling process..too aged and weathered.

[gavb]

I am quite excited :) I dont mind paying for materials at all if needs be. Anyway I will have me some patience.

[martinedwards]

Today's efforts were more happy than yesterday.......

the top.....

outline drawn & cut about 1cm too big all round. Edges spokeshaved down

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/b6topcarving.jpg

the scroll hacked at with a chisel...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/b7scrolla.jpg

then tidied with a dremel

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/b8scrollb.jpg


ok, tricky bit..... to get the inside curve to match the outside curve.......

first I made a depth jig. this is carved to a dome and set so the drill can only come to 7mm from it.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/b9depthjig.jpg


then I drill a load of holes all over the inside of the top.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/c1contours.jpg

now, I join the dots!!! even if I go a little too deep I've got a couple of mm grace.....

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/c2jointhedots.jpg

now sand it smooth (I've also cut the soundhole.....) this is about half way

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/c3sand.jpg

nearly done!! I'm really pleased with the grain here..... nice & symetrical, looks bookmatched, even though it isn't

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/c5nearlydone.jpg

you'll recall my disappointment that my original back cracked.......

Well, I've scrounged a lump of mahogany that used to be a school desk......

to prove it, here's a close up.....

dunno who Boris is, but he got his name well in there!!!!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/c4boris.jpg

[mishmannah]

Goodness me. :eek:

That grain is just absolutely awesome. I could not stop staring at it...

So you are hand chiseling out the wood, then?

[76Strat]

if i chissled that id spend hours in the hospital gettin stitches...

[ScottRiley]

This is starting to look really awesome.

I'd second that notion of paying good money for a Martin Edwards custom Mando :p

[martinedwards]

I'd second that notion of paying good money for a Martin Edwards custom Mando

Form an orderly que then!!!

A collegue in work (who already has a McIlroy, two Takamines, a Seagull & Lowden Custom series #00001) says he'd like one..... and I got a PM on mandolin cafe about a guy in the states who might be interested too!!

bear in mind I get locked out of my school workshop for July & August!!!!

So you are hand chiseling out the wood, then?
External gouge actually! :p There's no power tool I'd even attempt it with. sanders & things are all very well, but they're TOO fast y'know? by the time you think "might be nearly there" you've already gone too far....

story of my life really.......

if i chissled that id spend hours in the hospital gettin stitches... LoL been there!!! on the palm of my left hand I have a nike swoosh scar where a gouge went in when I was at college....... but don't worry, there's a matching exit scar round the side!!!!! :eek:

TRUE!!!! :rolleye:

anyway, the scroll is slightly out, but when I stick front to back I'll trim it with the bandsaw & make it more circular.....

No report tomorrow or Sunday, all the gear is in school, & I have a Roman Murder Mystery Party Sat Night & Two Church services to organise & play at on Sun. I've ordered fingerboard, trussrod, tuners & tail piece from Stewmac & bone bridges from Bruce Wei, so once we get to a certain point it'll be all stop & wait for the postie....... or start the next one in the meantime of course!!!!!

I DID ask Bruce to make me a lefty bridge, so Mish, you SURE you want it strung Right handed? I'll assume you do unless I hear otherwise!!!

[mishmannah]

Form an orderly que then!!!

A collegue in work (who already has a McIlroy, two Takamines, a Seagull & Lowden Custom series #00001) says he'd like one..... and I got a PM on mandolin cafe about a guy in the states who might be interested too!!

WOW!! Things are kinda taking off in a BIG way...were you expecting this?

That man has too many quality guitars...good on him!!! :D


No report tomorrow or Sunday, all the gear is in school, & I have a Roman Murder Mystery Party Sat Night & Two Church services to organise & play at on Sun. I've ordered fingerboard, trussrod, tuners & tail piece from Stewmac & bone bridges from Bruce Wei, so once we get to a certain point it'll be all stop & wait for the postie....... or start the next one in the meantime of course!!!!!

PHEW!! Uh, when you send the mando, could you send me some of your energy? I could do with some... :D

I DID ask Bruce to make me a lefty bridge, so Mish, you SURE you want it strung Right handed? I'll assume you do unless I hear otherwise!!!

:lmao: absolutely! Go on...make it a totally sold-out leftie.......pretty please. :)


Thankyou!!!

[paul_jam]

looking good. at least i know where to turn if i ever want a mando. could i get a boris custom, lol. looks like a small business taking off eh. better find a way to get into the workshop in the summer

[GuitarGretta]

Man oh man. I want one bad enough to make it worth your while. Wouldn't it be cool if you got enough orders on here for you to quit your day job? Or are you one of those teachers that teaches because he loves the kids? Whatever, volunteer...I want a mando!!! Two in fact. One for me and one for my brother who has decided he needs to be a ****hot bluegrass mando player.

Seriously though............

[martinedwards]

Nope, being a struggling luthier doesn't have good pension provision!!!

It's a hobby.

I have a friend who does cross stich. She ADMITS to spending about £500 a year on silks, hoops, backcloths & patterns

she does beautiful work and enjoys her hobby.

if I could make enough profit on each build to finance the next one and keep me in strings for my keepers, I'd be happy!!

If I could make enough profit to buy my wife an occasional present then she'd be happy too!!!!!

At least with the school workshops I'm not leaving sawdusty footprints all over the house.......

[kingtriplet2000]

hmm.... do you make acoustics to? or just mandos?

[martinedwards]

Now that would depend on your definition of an acoustic.......

my second build is in this thread (http://guitar.zentao.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34086&page=1&pp=15&highlight=%22acoustic+Les+Paul)

I'm half way through a "real" acoustic at an evening class, but I can't see it being finished this side of Christmas.............

[martinedwards]

Ok, back to work (hardly any free time today, so I won't get much done, but there's always tomorrow!!)

I'm sanding out the inside of the top.

Traditionally Mandos have bracing to support the thin wood on the top.

Ever the "outside the box" thinker....... why shape it all away, only to replace it with another bit? so I'm leaving two deeper strips on Mish's top (6mm rather than the rest of the top's 4mm) The thin areas will (hopefully) vibrate nicely with the thicker struts holding it all together and adding strength.

It has struck me that the drill out the back method may be a little

well

wasteful.

Before I know it, I'll be out of Old Science room bench!!!

then (thanks to some other folk on Mandolin cafe) I found Rigel Mandos. They use a similar technique but they make a solid wood hoop and rebate front & back onto that.

http://www.rigelinstruments.com/uploads/xrf_stages-thumb.jpg

I'm reckoning that I could get two half sides out of a smaller piece of wood and drop a flat back into a rebate on the back.........

Or even a carved back if I REALLY lost the head!!!

I've also been offered some oak.......

well a 4 foot daimeter 10 foot long tree trunk which was felled 4 years ago & is now ready to slab and Kiln dry........

How many mandos in a tree trunk THAT size!!!!!??

[mishmannah]

Sounds great!!

Have you got a link for Rigel's stuff? I like out of the box ideas...

How are those sides made? Are they made using a band saw or something, with an eventual drop-out middle block of wood?


If so, I'll have the central round bit to carve with!! :p My current project will be done in a week or two.

Surely the rebates will save the need of binding and purfling as you would with an acoustic guitar..

...and then surely acoustic guitars could be designed the same way, providing the back and side is nice, strong and thin, with bracing.

I've also been offered some oak.......

well a 4 foot daimeter 10 foot long tree trunk which was felled 4 years ago & is now ready to slab and Kiln dry........

How many mandos in a tree trunk THAT size!!!!!??

Wow!!!! Well done for getting that oak..I hope it's in good condition. That's a pretty old tree you have there; Do you have the means of preparing it? Then there's the question of storage..:p

[martinedwards]

rigel (http://www.rigelinstruments.com/)

as for storage there's always the store in school.......

[kingtriplet2000]

WOW!!!!

its really startin to looks nice.... i look forward to the finished project.........

[martinedwards]

I was asked in an email today how much for postage to Texas.......

[martinedwards]

top & back glued & clamped together, Left overnight.....

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/c7frontbackglued.jpg

Cut round the top to give a mando shaped body. The neck is beside it. The head is cut to thickness and I've started work on the volute. (that's the knobbly bit on the end of the neck)

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/c8bodyneck.jpg

Now isn't that back grain pretty!!!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/c9nicebackgrain.jpg

Just before I left work a parcel from StewMac arrived, so Now I have tuners, truss rod, tail piece, fingerboard & frets, Nuts I have in abundance, and the bridge is (hopefully) in the post from Bruce Wei

[mishmannah]

It's gotta be said, it is absolutely thrilling for me to log in and watch that instrument's progress; a tonic to the end of my hard day's slog in the nuthouse......you've gotta have something made for you sometime, Martin to see what it's like...


The mandolin is looking superb. I didn't know mahogany could look that nice!

Now a question about the G clamps...can they be used instead of cam clamps? I have a few of them at home already...

[Arc]

Oh WOW! I just can't help but flick through the pages over and over again to watch this thing actually happen in front of my eyes (via computer screen).

[Dro0]

^yeah awesome job martin :D

[martinedwards]

It's gotta be said, it is absolutely thrilling for me to log in and watch that instrument's progress; a tonic to the end of my hard day's slog in the nuthouse......you've gotta have something made for you sometime, Martin to see what it's like......

I can watch "her indoors" cook my tea!!!

The mandolin is looking superb. I didn't know mahogany could look that nice!
yeah, I was pleasantly surprised wheen I sanded all the guk off it!!

Now a question about the G clamps...can they be used instead of cam clamps? I have a few of them at home already

The BIG advantages of cam clamps is that they're light, and really hard to over tighten. G clamps CAN be heavy (think 20 of then holding a back on while the glue sets) and then one of them gets an extra 1/2 turn and the side collapses..... EEK!!! Use softwood cauls to absorb & spread some of the pressure. Look back at the pic again)

I have two bags of big plastic clothes peg like clamps that I got in Lidl. B&Q price, about £4 each. Lidl? 20 for £4 Mind you, for holding the lining round the sides ordinary clothes pegs would be fine..... just wrap a sheet of polythene over the top first as PVA glues don't stick to polythene.......

[mishmannah]

Okay *adds clothes pegs and cam clamps to ever growing shopping list*

When you joined the top and back of the mando together, did you use any special wood joins, like dado or miter?

[ScottRiley]

This is great to watch the progress of this instrument, Martin your work is fantastic, thanks for giving us the chance to see the various stages of the work, a lot of people wouldn't be so diligent and considerate with such a prospect, nice one :thumbs:

[kingtriplet2000]

what are you gunna finish it with anyway?

[martinedwards]

When you joined the top and back of the mando together, did you use any special wood joins, like dado or miter?
Nope, there's a good 2cm all the way round, plus ectra at the scroll & neck join for the glue to get a grip on. The PVA family of glues are stronger than the wood once set. If it ever lets go, it'll be the wood fibres seperating, not the glue joint!!

This is great to watch the progress of this instrument, Martin your work is fantastic, thanks for giving us the chance to see the various stages of the work, a lot of people wouldn't be so diligent and considerate with such a prospect, nice one

LoL, pure ego Scott, it's great to read how great y'all think I am!!!!! :p

what are you gunna finish it with anyway?

well, I've asked around other luthier forums (fora?) and the jury is out..... my first I did with Danish oil, which is good, but it takes ages to fully set. Even after a week there's still a greasy feel to it.....

I'm considering a good quality varnish, maybe a tough yacht varnish to withstand the pick scratches etc. A few thin coats fine sanded between then a really fine rubbing compound to finish.......

or something!!

[mishmannah]

Eeeeee, another questionoso...(hehe, no time off, Teacher!! :D)

Which PVA family do you pertain to? I'm doin' research as to what is the best glue...there is no way I am ever gonna try hide glue with the Stewmac kit...

pick scratches etc

In my household; storms, nuclear blasts, dried kiddie goo, headbuts...

[martinedwards]

I use the bog standard white PVA.

The yellow (titebond etc) has a higher hold temperature so if you're planning a move to, say Marakesh, then make sure you use the yellow.

I've never had any PVA let go yet

[martinedwards]

OK, busy day.....

trussrod slot cut, fingerboard glued onto neck, teck tenon cut, body mortice cut, neck carved and attached, tuner holes drilled and Truss rod cover trimmed to size.


Neck Mortice & tenon

spot the accidental mistake..... the round dot on the back of the neck is a hole which needs filled. OOPS!!! this is why I'm only asking for the price of parts, and not £20 per hour!!!!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/d1neckpocket.jpg

side view of neck showing the volute knobbley bit at the back of the neck head join

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/d5volute.jpg

and again from the back

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/d4backofneck.jpg

tuners in place, but not screwed to it.
Truss rod cover too big.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/d2tunerstrc.jpg

and then trimmed with the neck glued to the body and nut set into place

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/d3smallertrc.jpg

the neck needs sanded a bit more, then it's all sanding ready for the varnish, the fingerboard needs planed to a curve and fretted. The nut is cut to width, but not slotted yet. Bridge still somewhere between Taiwan & Ireland.......

[mishmannah]

Woah, looks like it's coming together..http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mishmannah/hyper.gif


'Scuse me for sounding like a noob, but is a volute created for easy playability on the neck?

made some fantastic progress there, Martin. That truss rod cover is beautiful..

I've been chatting to a female luthier on another forum about finishes...she's a huge fan of shellac and olive oil...a painstaking process that takes a month to cure!! She has to keep the guitar away from other people because of the dings it gets..

BTW, what sort of varnish are you going to use?

[martinedwards]

Woah, looks like it's coming together..http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mishmannah/hyper.gif


'Scuse me for sounding like a noob, but is a volute created for easy playability on the neck?

Naw, it's just a knobbly bit!! I suppose it's there to ease the neck profile into the back of the headstock profile. I'ts not even as if it's there to thicken up the join cos it's not really in the right place for that.......

made some fantastic progress there,
yup, I was surprised myself when I looked back at whaT i'D DONE IN ONE DAY......

I've been chatting to a female
DANGEROUS!!

luthier on another forum about finishes...she's a huge fan of shellac and olive oil...a painstaking process that takes a month to cure!! She has to keep the guitar away from other people because of the dings it gets..

BTW, what sort of varnish are you going to use

NOT A CLUE!! The Danish oil option is looming large, The finish on mine has hardened up a treat, so i't just a matter of time I suppose......

On the other hand, maybe l'll just get some oil varnmish at B&Q. I'm DEFINITELY not using shellac & chip fat!!!!!!!

[Robot_Boy]

out of interest, and this is of course unless either of you object, roughly whats it costing?

[mishmannah]

Hmmm, I'll tell you when I get the bill; I don't know for sure :D

What I do know is that I'll post sound clips when I get it..I know a few mandolin chords...

[grammer]

Hmmm, I'll tell you when I get the bill; I don't know for sure :D

What I do know is that I'll post sound clips when I get it..I know a few mandolin chords...


Geez your lucky Mish, beautiful custom instrument coming along right there. You best be posting sound clips!




PS-Martin, great job on it! You have great talent!

[martinedwards]

out of interest, and this is of course unless either of you object, roughly whats it costing?

So far the skin off three Knuckles!!!

I'm charging the cost of the parts plus a suitable beverage when I see Mish at a Festival in the summer!! Christian Youth festival, so, prolly a Latte or similar.......

Maybe once I actually know what I'm doing I'll start charging Luthier rates

[martinedwards]

neck planed & sanded, fret markers drilled, fitted & sanded, fretas fitted, cut to length, filed, sanded and generally tidied.

The frets were a git, especially the ones WAY up the neck (where no-one will ever go anyway).. I had to CA glue them in so they won't come loose.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/d6fretsmarkers.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/d7neckalldone.jpg

[mishmannah]

This deserves...


Four thumbs up!!!!! :D

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mishmannah/wiggles.jpg



Anyone who can fret an entire instrument in one day is definetely MAD!!!!! :rotf: I have heard they are a "bugger" to do!!!


Eh...was it easy? DO you have the specific fretting tools, or can one get away with everday domestic tools?


From here, the frets look perfick. Those ends look beautifully filed down...


Why O why are there so many unplayable frets so close together on a mandolin at the soundhole end?

[martinedwards]

Anyone who can fret an entire instrument in one day is definetely MAD!!!!! :rotf: I have heard they are a "bugger" to do!!!

None of my previous have been any problem at all. the slots just seemed a bit loose. Oh I dunno!!

Eh...was it easy? DO you have the specific fretting tools, or can one get away with everday domestic tools?

Flat faced hammer. some people reccommend copper or plastic faced hammers which will dent the tops of the fret less.

FLAT file. I went through about 30 files in a tray in school before I found one that actually WAS flat. CHECK!!!!!

Ground pincers. I got a set from Lidl...., £1.50 I think, and ground them so that the cutting edge is right on the end rather than the usual 2mm in. this lets you snip right to the edge.

Last wee trick is to set a steel ruler alongside the fingerboard to protect the body surface fromm the edge of the file.

once the frets are in place and the tops filed flat, a buff with wet & dry smoothes tham off (I use a chunk of formica worktop as a sanding block to keep things nice & flat....) You SHOULD then dress the sides of the frets too. Haven't done that yet. Stewmac have a handy wee hollow file for this, but I just used the flat one & steel ruler before.

Have a look at frets.com, they probably have a really good description of how to do it right!!

From here, the frets look perfick. Those ends look beautifully filed down... not too bad.....


Why O why are there so many unplayable frets so close together on a mandolin at the soundhole end?

looks I guess. Can't iamgine EVER going up past the octave, there's so little sopace between the frets you'd only get your nail in there!!

BTW, stopped in B&Q on the way home for Yacht varnish. Clear, glossy and tough as tough stuff. 3 or four coats brushed on over the next week, a week to dry hard (if I can leave it alone!!) then really fine wet & dry to get a real smooth finish, then polisher.

then at last I'll get the tail , bridge, tuners & nut on..... assuming the nut has arrived from Bruce by then, which I'mx sure it will.....

to fill in the time between varnish & sanding I've got a resonator to build!!

[Robot_Boy]

i just realised something...


Mish isnt.... oh god..... A LEFTY???

[martinedwards]

i just realised something...


Mish isnt.... oh god..... A LEFTY???
I know, disgraceful isn't it, hasn't even got the decency to hide her disgusting habits....

what is the world coming to where our children arent safe to play freely in the streets outside our homes without people of.....


THAT


persuasion free to meet & plot.........

[mishmannah]

:lolpnd: :rotf: :lolpnd:



Yeah, evil bunch, aren't we?

[martinedwards]

As the french would say.......


Sinister!!!

[Robot_Boy]

:lolpnd: :rotf: :lolpnd:



Yeah, evil bunch, aren't we?


i shook hands with a lefty once. HE TRIED TO USE THE WRONG HAND. THE WRONG HAND. what more need i say


in all honesty though, that mando looks awesome (even if it is all backwards). i want one now too. but theres so many things i want. i cant wait to see it when its finished

[mishmannah]

Okay, you lads can wheel the dialysis machine away now, think there's enuff been taken in the southpaw department.......:p :D

[Arc]

Mish, you have to write a song on the mando, then post it onto JS and show us your skillz!

[martinedwards]

And then we could play it backwards to see how it would sound right-handed!!!!!!!

[gavb]

^^Lmao

[mishmannah]

And then we could play it backwards to see how it would sound right-handed!!!!!!!


Looks like somebody has the guts and audacity to take the mickey out of a lefthanded moderator.... :D :D


:p

*frowns*



*bottom lip trembles*





Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!! Mummy!!!!

[PerianArdocyl]

Ohhh, like what you might play Greensleeves with...those are absoloutely beautiful. And thanks for the warm welcome!

[martinedwards]

No pix today cos I forgot and left the camera in work, but 2 coats of clear varnish applied. I reckon 3 days to really harden before I can get near it with wet & dry.......

[mishmannah]

Martin, when will it be finally ready? :)

[martinedwards]

patience, dear, patience!!!!

the bridge hasn't arrived yet, so that's holding things up.

I won't give a DEFINITE date, but it depends on the finish. the longer I leave it before I sand, the better it'll be.

I'd be disappointed if it's not in the post by
























the end of





























next week.......

[mishmannah]

No hurry, honest....


.....I just can't wait to get my mitts on it!! :toohappy: :D

[martinedwards]

Ok, looked at it in the cold light of day and it needs at least another coat of varnish.

patience!!!!

[mishmannah]

*best John Cleese impression*

No problem!!

[PerianArdocyl]

Wow, so Martin's actually fixing and sending it to you, Mish?

[mishmannah]

'fink so! :D

[martinedwards]

Ok Mish, here y'go, pics with two coats of varnish

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/e1varnishedback.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/e2varnishedfront.jpg

you'll notice a slight drip coming from the scroll. I've removed that since the pic was taken.

I've put another coat on the front this morning, maybe by friday it'll be ready to sand, but if I CAN I'll leave it to monday to make sure it's all really hard before I get the sandpaper going.

Still no sign of the bridge, so it's not ME that's stalling!!!

[mishmannah]

Honestly, I have the patience of a saint; The best things come to those who wait. :)


It's looking great!!

[mishmannah]

Martin, I was wandering 'round the tools section of Focus today. (Where females fear to tread) and came across this http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mishmannah/unibond_superpva_tin.jpg glue...


Is this stuff suitable for glueing a guitar together? I think it's one part to 6 water for wood... I know its a basic question, but I don't want to make any mistakes..

[martinedwards]

for my bass I used cascamite which is waterproof megaglue, comes as a powder.

Sam uses Quickbond which B&Q don't stock.

it's a yellow PVA and is apparently stronger than the whire (more common) stuff.

My Les Paul & Mando were both the ordinary 1/2 gallon school use PVA.......

for a quality "keeper", I'd look out the yellow stuff. It may be a few quid dearer, but for a £400 budget, you'd kick yourself in 25 years if it started to seperate!!!

[mishmannah]

Ok, thankyou.

[PerianArdocyl]

Aw man, I wish I could see them. My computer screen is so dark, it just looks like a big block of wood. U.U

[martinedwards]

Very minor news, just got an email from Brice Wei to say that the bridge (custom made lefty one!!) has been posted. ETA 8-10 days........

[mishmannah]

No worries mate...

That's gonna take it to near halfway June time,let's save dosh on shipping: I'll bring me mandolin chordbook and pick it up when I see ya at SM06. :)

[martinedwards]

No flight case!!!!

I'll bring it in a cardboard box with a load of bubble wrap.......








IF I REMEMBER!!!!!

maybe I'll just leave it sitting in school for the summer..........










Naw, I wouldn't do that to you!!!!

[martinedwards]

OK, bridge arrived this morning so I'll be sorting that all today

the nut needs cut and glued into place

the outer strings put on and the tailpiece lined up and screwed into place.

bridge fitted and positioned for intonation.

notches for strings cut on bridge.

leave it overnight to settle down.

Then tomorrow......

check all frets for dead spots.

fine wet & dry to sort any probs.

done!!!!

I'll post pics if I remember to take the camera home......

[martinedwards]

Bum!!!!!!

tuned the darned thing too high & broke BOTH E strings

pooooooooo!!!!!!

Ah well, I'm ordering some more today anyway........

Hey Mish,

I now know 3 chords lefthanded too!!!!!

[mishmannah]

Bum!!!!!!

tuned the darned thing too high & broke BOTH E strings

pooooooooo!!!!!!

Wow...

When I tune the E strings, I wind up to tension then VEEERRRRYYY slowly crank the tuners up to tune. For me, a foolproof way of making sure those little strings don't go ping ping...


Hey Mish,

I now know 3 chords lefthanded too!!!!!

This is the crazy thing, I have got to re-learn the three chords I know, because I was playing on a righty mando!!

Hmm, I wonder if I'll be as lucky as you on Freecycle and be able to swap my mando for a full piece orchestra?? :D :p ;)


BTW, I'd love to see some pics of it when it is finished, although I'll have to try to wait a month before I can play it... :( :(

[martinedwards]

OK then........

A bridge too far?

funny lefty one on it's own.......

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600057.jpg

How to mark nut slot depth. Sand a pencil flat so that it marks the nut where the imaginary zero fret would be.......

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600058.jpg

then cut em down to the line...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600059.jpg

you need some notches on the bridge too.....

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600060.jpg

tailpiece without cover.....

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600061.jpg

strings onto tuners...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600062.jpg

and look!!! the frets are straight!!!!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600063.jpg

yes I KNOW the strings need cut!!!

By the way, my Dad in law wanted to take my mando to show to one of his coffee cronies who's just bought one off ebay....

One of the other old codgers there has a son who's made a few guitars......

HE really liked my little mando and said it was a good job......

Guess who's Dad he is.......




















yup,



My Dad in law's coffee crony



is




George






Lowden Sr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mishmannah]

Martin, a very beautiful job. I think I really can't wait a month...


Sorry, I changed my mind again!! :o

Uh.....can you mail it to me please?






Pretty please?

[martinedwards]

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

the new strings will hopefully be here before Monday.

PM me an address!!!!

[martinedwards]

new loop end strings.......

here's an old banjo player's trick I've picked up

Take normal Ernie Ball strings with the little bobbin in a loop at the end.

Squeeze gently

and the little ball pops out!!!

one loop end string

(sounds a bit like the process for castrating piglets, but I'll not dwell on that thought!!

[martinedwards]

OK, so having castrated the piglets.......

No, sorry, having removed the bobbins from the strings........

Here's the finished Mando all strung up.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600065.jpg

and from the back

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600066.jpg

and inside goes a label.......

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600068.jpg

and then it all goes into a box

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600071.jpg

and tomorrow I go to the post office.........

















hey, do you think we could start a breeding programme?

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600069.jpg

[mishmannah]

Wow!!!

Don't they both look beautiful!! It's interesting how the pine varies in colour with a glossy varnish.

The postman will be my best friend in the next few days....:D

Providing Royal Mail have been kind to the mando, I will be submitting a full review to Jam Session....:)


Martin, have you discerned any tonal differences between the mandos?

[Veritas]

I WANT ONE!!! Great Job Sr Martin! Who is George Lowden?

[martinedwards]

I WANT ONE!!! Great Job Sr Martin! Who is George Lowden?
:eek:

that's similar to a violinist asking "who's Stradivarius"

Or an electric guitarist asking "leo Fender & Les Paul, who they then?"

George Lowden is the guy who set up Lowden Guitars which mutated into Avalon and spawned McIlroy on the way.

George is now out on his own making one offs.

they're fairly pricy......

http://georgelowden.com/

Steel String Guitar Features As Standard £ 3,850

Soundbox My original soundbox shapes: ‘O’, ‘S’ & ‘F’
Neck Five piece Mahogany and Rosewood or Walnut
Fingerboard Selected grade ebony
Bindings Highly figured all soundbox bindings
Purflings Walnut /Rosewood / Mahogany / Sycamore lines
Machineheads Gold Schaller machineheads with ebony buttons
Celtic ‘L’ inlay in headstock from abalone or mother of pearl
Soundboard bracing Unique hand voiced George Lowden pattern
Bridge Old growth Brazilian Rosewood
Finish Your choice of my hand rubbed natural satin finish or high gloss


Concert Guitar Specifications As Standard £ 4,500

Back and sides Selected East Indian rosewood
Soundboard Your choice of master grade Alpine Spruce or Cedar
Neck Selected South American Cedar
Fingerboard Finest quality black ebony
Bindings Figured Koa / Tasmanian Blackwood
Purflings Rosewood / Mahogany / Sycamore lines
Rosette My own design in natural wood colours (mosaic style)
Tuning machines Hand made “Rodgers” with celtic engraving pattern
Scale 650 mm
Neck width 52 mm ( nut ) and 62.5 mm at 12th fret
NB: Other neck widths / scale lengths are available upon request




Lowdens are as good as ANYTHING else out there. There are NO BETTER!!!!


and Mish, as for differences?

well, yours has a 14th fret neck join where as mine is a 12th. as a result, yours is a little brighter in sound, but that could be the varnish rather than danish oil, wood thickness bone rather than ebony bridge,or just being fresher and not played in yet!!

I haven't a clue!!!!

hey!!! this is now a 100 post thread!!!!

[martinedwards]

and the mndo is now in the caring hands of Post Office Parcels.

ETA 4-5 days

[martinedwards]

Ah but you're using the GASeous calendar where new year is the 1st of July right!!!!?????

[mishmannah]

Okay, 106 posts later, and Parcel Force has come up with the goods...

I now have the mandolin crafted by JS' very own budding luthier, Martin Edwards.

I am totally impressed and honoured, to say the least. The sound is as shimmery and goregeous as the mahogany. Does mahogany shimmer? This stuff does. I dunno whether it mutated from years of chemicals, chewing gum and adolescent goo impregnated into the grains, but you would never know it was once a science school table sitting forlornly in a forgotten store cupboard...

And because of the mahogany, this unassuming little mando has a sweet tone. I like to use a flexible pick to maximise the tone, and boy, it is beautiful.

The pine top is very very sturdy and too glows like honey. Any photographs taken would do no justice to the appearance.

Intonation on this shiny, lusterous new mandolin is heaps better than my old mando, a loud and rather crass instrument, sounding like a shoebox with strings on, keeping in tune like a tone deaf hippopotamus (?)

There is nothing like having a handcrafted item in your possession. I have already spent one hour playing on it, and look forward to creating some guitar background work to play to.

I am going to try some sort of mad Celtic ditty on it soon.

You have gotta watch these Northern Irish luthiers. They are planning to rule the world....especially this one. This guy has natural talent.

[martinedwards]

Ha, glad you like it!!

I've a challenge for you.....

go to my soundclick.(below)

listen to lonely fiddle blues.

It's taken me a month to get my first real tune off & recorded

consider that a gauntlet thrown down!!!

[mishmannah]

GREAT STUFF!!!!! That's an original, innit? I am WELL IMPRESSED, especially considering it has only taken a month...


Hmmmmmm, consider aforementioned gauntlet well and truly thown down, sir!!

Just hang on for a bit.....:p

[martinedwards]

Nope, not an original, heres two folk who actually CAN play having a go at it.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZPV_UsDots&search=mandolin

[mishmannah]

Thanks for posting that, I am all depressed that a TEN year old can play like 1,000,000 times better than me...

Yours was still great though, especially as you have only been playing the song for a month!!

[Ogier]

Darnit! You had to go share that didn't you...

Now I gotta get one too. bugger...

Hey Martin, Nice work man.

Hey Mish, Soundclip???? :)

[mishmannah]

Hey Mish, Soundclip???? :)

Will do, however I created a wonderful riff on the mando last night with a stonking progression on the guitar , but unfortuately I've remembered the chords but forgotten the "reel"...darnit. :mad:

[martinedwards]

that's why you practice with audacity running, right?

[Ogier]

Um, at the risk of sounding really dumb, what is Audacity???

[Sexymonkey]

Um, at the risk of sounding really dumb, what is Audacity???
It's free recording software.

[grammer]

Dude......mandos are kewl!!!!!!

[gavb]

OK, so having castrated the piglets.......

No, sorry, having removed the bobbins from the strings........

Here's the finished Mando all strung up.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600065.jpg

and from the back

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600066.jpg

and inside goes a label.......

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600068.jpg

and then it all goes into a box

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600071.jpg

and tomorrow I go to the post office.........


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600069.jpg

Wow, they are gorgeous. So, do you feel like making another?

[martinedwards]

I'm nearly finished a guitar shaped one with a round soundhole and a flat X braced spruce top. when it's done I'll probably release one or other into the wild.........

sealed tenders please!!!!

[ScottRiley]

Damn, they're hot, any chance I could put an order in for one in the near future? I'd be honoured if I could.

[martinedwards]

I'll let you know which of the two are up for grabs when the guitar shaped one is finished.

I can convert the (acoustic) guitar shaped one to Lefty if necessary, but the one like Mish's is DEFINITELY for rightys!!

[Ogier]

This can give a person a servere case of M.A.S.....

[mishmannah]

I tell you, I will NEVER sell my lefty handcrafted mando...it's a work of art.

However, I will give away my Blue Moon mandolin......

[mishmannah]

Addendum...

I have been thrashing tunelessly away on Martin's handmade mando for a week now, and unless I am completely nuts, I am sure the thing is already opening up...the volume is increasing (I think) and the tone seems to be even more shimmery and alive...

Playing towards the bridge does not create a jangly sound like a guitar, but makes it sound just PHAT. I can rest my wrist against the loong post-bridge strings and mute nicely.

The intonation is just brilliant at the twelfth fret, it continues in excellence wayyyyy up to the frets that dogs can only hear!!!

Almost banjo-like...a hybrid sound...


AWESOME STUFF!!!!! :toohappy:

[martinedwards]

well, I've nearly finished this one now........

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600098.jpg

the strings are on for a try out, but the frets still need tidied and the truss rod cover still needs to go on.

I slipped when polishing it and dinged the top just behind the bridge!!!!

BOOOO!!!!

ah well, mark it down to experience.......

the neck is a bit chunkier on this one but because the top is thinner
ITS SO LOUD!!!!!

I've fallen out with varnish. I know you like yours Mish, and I gotta say I was pleased with it, but without spray facilities Varnish is a pain.

further excursions into lutherie land will involve danish oil!!

really pleased that it's opening up for you, I was really surprised when mine did that. you hear about these folks with really expensive mandmade guitars talking about this and you really gotta hear it to believe it, right?

[bugman]

Martin, with each instrument you build the instruments keep looking better! Keep it up. I'm sure that luthier course you're taking is a big help too.

[mishmannah]

Yeah, I can imagine that mando being very loud: look at the SIZE of that lower bout!

The rezz is really stealing the show.. What a beautiful instrument!!! Is that based on the rebated front and back? Love the contrasting tone of the light and dark wood....

Will the rezz be rigged up with pups to amplify?

It would just be so much fun for a few of us to pop over and have a jam party with all those wonderful handmade instruments!!

I can really see the influence of Lowden/McIlroy in your instruments.

As for varnishing, I am going with Shellac. I have heard elswhere that if varnish isn't "light", it adds weight to the tonewood, thus compromising tone.

The reason why glossy, tough varnishes are applied to guitars is basically so that they won't get dings. However the full movement of the wood is compromised by the added absorbed weight.

[martinedwards]

yup, this is all true but as 99% of my playing is amplified, with a piano & drums, subtle nuance isn't that big an issue!!

bung a piezo in a plank, it'll do!!

[Ogier]

Lookin good.

[martinedwards]

well, I put the rez together today.

ever since I started it I've been having bad vibes off it.

I started it before Mish's mando. Ive finished hers, nearly finished another and started a THIRD, and the rez just hasn't grabbed me.

So, like I said, today I put it together.......

And the neck laminations seperated when I hammered in the tuner surrounds!!!

TWICE!!!!

I strill strung it up and it sounds... well...... Ok ish I suppose.

I think it'll be stripped to build a real guitar. All I've really lost is a fingerboard, so I'm about £10 out of pocket.

Ah well, back to the walnut!!!

[mishmannah]

Awww, what a shame..

Do you think you need more acoustic space in the soundbox? The sound waves needs to masticate a bit in the guitar box before spiralling round in the cone...the pup amplification prolly comes second in a resonator.

It looked beautiful, though. Thanks for sharing the build info; It's great to be kept up on progress. :)

[martinedwards]

In don't think so, as I've see strats with a reso front on them.

It sound fine with a screwdriver as a slide, but the action's way too low (naturally :p ) to do that.

I'll leave it overnight and see what I'll do. the idea of hand cutting fret slots on a blank rosewood fingerboard I have is raising it's head, but I'll prolly not strip it for parts till after the hols.

It's a £5 Martin style truss rod and £15 tuners, so apart from the £50 cone & cover, (which I don't know if I'll use again .......

Maybe if I lay hands on a smashed fronted acoustic.........

[mishmannah]

Maybe if I lay hands on a smashed fronted acoustic.........


I'd readily mail you my Samick dreadnought for free, I don't play it any more, however it's a flipping leftie..(GAH! My dreaded affliction!!!)...I'd let you have the pleasure of smashing it... :p

As for your rezz cone, could you sell it on Ebay?

[martinedwards]

I could, but i'll prolly leave the guitar strung up & hanging in my classroom til I need the bits. Always be a talking point in class.

Anyway, what ABOUT a luthiers section?

[mishmannah]

Anyway, what ABOUT a luthiers section?

whaddya mean, a forum section on Jam Session?

of course I totally agree, I'll keep naggin' out back... :p :)

[grammer]

Mish...getting any good at that mando yet?

[mishmannah]

/\ hang on in there, I'm gonna record once it's opened up a little more...

[mishmannah]

Okay, it's opened up a little more, and I have recorded.

It's an incredible experience having an instrument open up after a few months. This mandolin (or me ) needs warming up as well each time I play...if I play for ten mins, it really warms up and sounds excellent.

I created this little song on a rainy day in Wales...I asked my youngest daughter who was listening what I should call it, and she said "Esther's Song", so...here it is!!! (http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=4417549&q=hi)


By the way, the tuning is GDGD

[martinedwards]

WOW!!! you can play mando as good as you play guitar!!!

And y'know, I'm as pleased with the sound as you are!!!

[mishmannah]

Cheers!!!!

Can you hear the shimmery tones, though? It seems to sound a lot sweeter than the other mandos I have heard, more akin to a Rigel type tone.

I'm thinking the mahogany is contributing a lot to the brightness.

I don't feel anxious to keep the "sound" going like you have to on other mandos......the sustain enables me to allow the harmonic decay to weave into my playing.

I played this piece sans pick, I find picks really impedes mando playing..altough it would be a little louder with one.