Basic survival guide for playing clubs

[scott powell]

This is going to be a long thread,so i'm going to hit on it the next few days. What this post is a bout is survivng playing the club circuts,and i'll list some mistakes i have made, in hopes ya'll WONT make the same ones.I'd aslaso like to extend an invitation for anyone who wishes to contribute.the more the merrier.

First, when you find a club you would like to play,scope it out on Friday and Saturday nite. Listen to the band playing,are thry going over? if so what kind of music are they playing? if its a Classic rock or Country band,and you play Heavy Metal or Thrash,reconsider this club. also,be aware, 99.99999999% of people in most clubs do NOT want to hear original music, they are there to dance,have fun,and hopefully meet someone and get lucky.Unless its a club that caters to musicians and original materiel, take all of your pre concived notions of rock stradom,put them in a bag,and toss them in the dump.
you need to watch the crowd,see what makes them get up and dance. you WANT the audience to dance, its usually a VERY good sign they like you. also, when people dance they get THIRSTY, and drink beer. understand that you are pretty much a glorified beer salesman. the more beer they drink, the better the club owner will like you. I dont care if youre the hottest band around, if youre not helping the owners bottom line, youre a liability and WONT be back.
getting back to the band thats playing, what music are they playing that the crowd likes? what do they play that the crowd DOSENT like? take notes,and rememember to play something in the vein thats getting crowd approval,and distance your self from songs of that nature.
DO NOT under ANY circumstances approach the owner or mangager on this nite, they are WAY too busy to talk to you, dont pester them. ask a waitress who you need to speak with about getting hired. Call the club on say a monday or tuesday,and ask for that person,and make an appointment to meet them,if they say tey arent hiring bands,or are booked,ask if you can drop a promo pack off GET IN THE DOOR, never i mean NEVER take NO for an answer . only have ONE person in the band talk to someone in a club. if you have every body calling at different tiems it gets to be a cluster f*** ,noone knows whats going on then. i have three or four clubs that i deal with, my soundman deals with three or four, it makes life simple, the owners know who to deal with.
When you meet this person, be NEAT,clean ,sober ,and have a very firm grasp of the queens english. be VERY polite,maintain eye contact,and SMILE. your promo pack should have a CD, band picture,songlist and a brief bio of the band.you should list places you have played,have a detailed list of your PA,and equipment.DO tell the club owner he will m ake money hiring you, the people that come to his club will stay too see you and spend money. DONT tell
him that you will bring a big crowd and pack the place out . everyone and his brother uses that line,its very cliched,dont go there. DONT ask him to listen to the Cd while you are there, very bad form. Tell him waht you'd like to make ( i usally low ball the first time we play in a club) and thank him for his time. appear eager but not desperate or pushy. if he dosent book you then,call him about once every two weeks and touch base,or drop by the club,spenda few bucks,and ask him about booking. eventually you will get in,and my thrad tommrow will be what to do once you have scored the gig

[Tingly]

Great practical advice! Thanks for taking the time to write this, Scott. I eagerly look forward to the next installment.

[Reign in Blood]

this will be a useful tool in about 3 to 5 years. haha i'm only 14 :(

thanks,i'm looking forward to the next bit now,i'm intregued.

[ForeverWritten8]

awesome advice, i'm sure i'll be using that soon!!!1


^^hey dude, i'm 15 and my band might possibly open up for Byzantine this summer(their lead guitarist is my guitar teacher) it's just who you have connections with man.

[scott powell]

On to phase two: the owner agrees to hire you!!! set a price,and insist on CASH. I have played clubs for almost 20 years and can count on one hand the number of times i have taken a check from a club owner. From my stand point, itsa BIG hassle, i like to pay my band members that nite, so i dont have to try to get everyone together during the week. they can also pay thier tabs for the weekend,which makes the waitresses happy. I also dont need anymore income to have to declare on my taxes ( i dont write off gear or anything, I would have to have an limited S-corp and thats too much trouble, dont want the IRS to examine me any more than needed) also if the check bounces,youre going to play hell collecting. simply too many negatives. Some people try to get the club owner to sign a contract for the weekend,but IMHO thats not a good idea. First, club owners HATE sigining ANYTHING that may hold them liable. In 18 years of clubs i have only been stiffed twice,not a bad record.If a club onwer does that,word gets around and he will find himself unable to hire anyone. Secondly, the club owner will feel you dont 'trust' him and that can bode ill for you before you even get in the door. of COURSE you dont trust him, he is CLUB OWNER, but you cant signal that you dont trust him, its like a big dance. If you are going thru a booking agent get a contract from the agent,because in effect you will be a subcontractor for the agencey,and the owner will direct you towards them if there are money problems. yet another reason NOT to use a booking agent.
when you work out the price,ask for comps for meals and drinks. all he can do is say no,but usally will cut a bit of a break on food,maybe half price on drinks,free soda'sbut dont count on it. INSIST that wives and g/f's get in free,but tell your friends they will have to pony up at the door.
A week before you are scheduled to play,call and touch base with the owner about playing the next week,ask him if you can put up flyers in the club that week,but DONT mention money, VERY bad form,again part of the dance. Tell him you are looking foward to seeing him,and say good bye.print up some flyers and go to the club and put them on the doors,the tables,the bathrooms,ANYWHERE you can tape one
During that week, check all of your amps,mics,cables, monitors,checkEVERYTHING you are going to take that nite to be certain its in fine working order. I am speaking from bitter painful experience here guys, do NOT take chances!!! the person with the PA needs to get to the club at LEAST two hours beforehand to set up,and make sure the PA is in fine working order.
DONT have everyone in the band get there at the same time, its a waste of time,have the drummer get there first,he has more crap to bring in ,then bass,then guitars/keys then the singer. ( the singer will be last anyways,to avoid dragging in any equipment :rotf: )
DONT have everyone playing random crap before soundcheck,( where the drummer is bangingin away,the guitarist is playing a sabbath tune,and the bassist is playing CoB) that is ANOYING!!! it drives people crazy. i have a cast iron rule: set up,then SIT DOWN!!
do a quick soundcheck starting with drums,havea STRONG kick,thats waht people dance to, then bass,then guitars,then vocals. do it quick,you DONT want to turn the club against you.let the DJ know you are going to soundcheck, be nice, you dont need any enemies in the club,especially if youre new there. we soundcheck the same song everytime we play, so pick one you know inside and out,and do it. After the end of the tune, have EVERYONE stop and get off stage until show time. pull the mains on the PA and monitors down so you wont have any feedback squeals,have a beer,and tommorow nite we will move to phase three :D

[Geetahzan]

Awsome Awsome Writing Scott, Im very pleased you decided to do this, as im hoping sometime soon I can get my band into some clubs. These tip most importantly MAKE SENSE not just some random guys theory on how things should go with a minimal experience. I can tell you've "been there, Done that" Thanks again! :thumbs:

[stratman50th]

Sticky me thinks.
Great job Scott...

[Lazy Bee]

Four Star advice Scott. I wouldn't disagree with a thing I've read so far, accept I think you pamper your singer to much. Make that dude carry some gear, like the P.A. maybe. :D

I would just emphasize to anyone considering playing clubs to remember the songlist is everything!!! Unless you're a tribute band, an opening original band, or headlining all original band.... variety is everything. If you can cover Vai to a T, GREAT do it for six or seven minutes a set. The rest the time play popular/dance music.

Here's a funny one for ya. When Michael Jacksons "Beat It" came out I suggested we play it. I thought the guys were gonna throw me out of the band. I fought hard for it and got my way. Fortunantly we had a singer who could cover it. To me it was a no brainer, not all SMASH dance tunes are that fun to play. It had Eddie for crying out loud. Two weeks later we had a one nighter at a college. Excellent money. We were more of a hard rock/top 40 band by this time. The night was going ok but when we pulled that out and the place went nuts. We played it four more times that night...they just kept asking for it!!. The song was brand new and we had it at the right time. We nailed the gig, got a good reference, and I got to badger the guys for a week. "Gee guys, good thing we knew Beat It" Oh, and the next club we played ate it up too.

By the way we also played YYZ, Limelight, and a few other Rush tunes that night for ourselves...you dont have to be a slave to commercial music, but you need to play enough to get the job done.

[scott powell]

Sticky me thinks.
Great job Scott...


Thanx, glad i can help! I would love to be able to see some of the folks on the forum not have to learn by mistakes,which is how i have learned everything about this business

[Reign in Blood]

groovy!! thats cool to know ,thanks.

[scott powell]

Phase three- you are set up, reasy to go, you havea bout 20 min before you play,and you wanta beer, coke,or whatever liquid you drink. Do go to the bar for your fisrt one. do NOT let the waitress get it for you. the reason for this is the bar will give you teh TRUE price of the drink. VERY VERY VERY often i have seen waitress add a buck or two to the drinks, they pocket that,and the tip you give them. i have seen this happen in almost every club i have played in. Let the waitress get the second one, and if there is a price difference, let her know what you payed at the bar, but give her an out, say she must be busy and forgot, yada yada, again you DONT need any enemies starting out. when she brings you the drink,as you reach for your wallet,she will smile and say "thats ok, i can run a tab for you". NEVER EVER NEVER run a tab!!!!!!! if you dont pay attention to anything else in this thread NEVER RUN A TAB. you are simply begging to get screwed if you do. its easy for them to overcharge the price of the drinks, food etc, put more drinks than you actually had on your tab, and at the end of the nite, if there is a dicrepancy on the tab, WHO do you think the club owner and bouncers are going to believe? well it WONT be YOU.
Regarding waitreses, be SURE to tip them. thats the biggest complaint i have heard from waitresses about bands ,is they dont tip,so slip them an extra buck or three. they are also VERY influential with your future at the club, they usually have the bouncers and owners ear,and their opinon is held in pretty high regard.
i ALWAYS get a list of the waitress and bartenders, and at leat twice a set i will remind the crowd to'tip your waitresess and bartenders' and call them by name, 'got susy and trish on the floor,and barbara behind the bar, be good to them!!' this creates goodwill,and you cant BUY that stuff. it will also guarantee good service for the band. its a small move that pays great dividends.

ok time to play! you have two options: print a setlist for each set,or print EVERY song you do,and post it where the singer can see it,so he can call the songs. i dont like setlists, if someone requests a song, i dont think they should have to wait until OUR schedule will allow it, cause we are there for THEM. plus, somesongs on the set list may not go over when ,so stay flexible. I have learned that if you stick to 2 fast songs, then a slow song ,its a usually sure fire formula for sucess in most clubs. when i first started playing clubs i wanted to stay at 150 mph all nite long, i gradually learned to add more ballads,bring the mood down,and let people slow dance. remember, many are there looking for someone to go home with,so in addition to a beer salesman,youre playing cupid as well.
your song choice is SOOOOOOO important! watch the crowd, if they arent dancing to fast songs,but are to slow songs, add more slow. if they are responding better to classic rock than current,do that! keep in mind that you are a human jukebox,and your there to make the CROWD happy. have a very varied setlist to choose from,we do songs that i hate with a passion,and if i met the writers i'd slap them in the mouth,but i play them and smile because thats what the crowd wants to hear. if you play what YOU want to play,and try to force it down thier throats, it will eat you alive, they will boo you off the stage, and leave. when a club onwer sees paying customers leaving because of the band .....well that band wont be back

I prefer to have someone in front run sound, but for several years i did it from the stage. if you go that route, you simply HAVE to put someone out front who's opinon the band trusts to tell waht needs adjusting,and will respond to. DONT listen to the drummers g/f when she says the drums arent loud enough or the keyboard playes wife when she says keys need to be brought up, thats a recipie for disaster. be VERY careful of loud stage volume, i refuse to have volume wars!!! thats a very easy way to get fired from a club.its a problem i had 18 years ago,and its a problem i forsee having 18 years from now, it never changes. watch out for the snakes who start at one volume,and by the third song have doubled their volume. you simply cant have that,be very firm with the person,this isnt a matter to trifle with.
also,DO NOT have squealy feedback ,ever! this usally occurs when a mic is too hot,or its pointed towards the mains. they make VERY cheap feedback eliminators,and these are worth thier weight in gold. a crowd will turn against you in a heart beat if that happens,and once they are unhappy, its hard to regain them.
ok thats enough for tonite, i dont want to bore everybody, got plenty more to post tommorrow

[scott powell]

Four Star advice Scott. I wouldn't disagree with a thing I've read so far, accept I think you pamper your singer to much. Make that dude carry some gear, like the P.A. maybe. :D

I would just emphasize to anyone considering playing clubs to remember the songlist is everything!!! Unless you're a tribute band, an opening original band, or headlining all original band.... variety is everything. If you can cover Vai to a T, GREAT do it for six or seven minutes a set. The rest the time play popular/dance music.

Here's a funny one for ya. When Michael Jacksons "Beat It" came out I suggested we play it. I thought the guys were gonna throw me out of the band. I fought hard for it and got my way. Fortunantly we had a singer who could cover it. To me it was a no brainer, not all SMASH dance tunes are that fun to play. It had Eddie for crying out loud. Two weeks later we had a one


nighter at a college. Excellent money. We were more of a hard rock/top 40



band by this time. The night was going ok but when we pulled that out and the place went nuts. We played it four more times that night...they just kept asking for it!!. The song was brand new and we had it at the right time. We nailed the gig, got a good reference, and I got to badger the guys for a week. "Gee guys, good thing we knew Beat It" Oh, and the next club we played ate it up too.

By the way we also played YYZ, Limelight, and a few other Rush tunes that night for ourselves...you dont have to be a slave to commercial music, but you need to play enough to get the job done.



excellent words of wisdom! i insisted we learn an Eminem song,and a few Kid Rock songs, they go over better than anything else we do,and i had fun sticking that up thier @$$es as well :rotf:

[Lazy Bee]

NEVER EVER NEVER run a tab!!!!!!! if you dont pay attention to anything else in this thread NEVER RUN A TAB.

lmao :rotf: ...Scott I hate to edit out and a single word you said to get this quote, but this is a classic and so true. For so many reasons!! If you're on road trip and the drummer (and it's allways the drummer) drinks his paycheck...the following week will be a drag for everybody.

Reading your posts carefully here man. You obviously run a tight ship and display a high level of professionalism. When you're through gigging, God forbid that day comes, you got a future in management!

[scott powell]

lmao :rotf: ...Scott I hate to edit out and a single word you said to get this quote, but this is a classic and so true. For so many reasons!! If you're on road trip and the drummer (and it's allways the drummer) drinks his paycheck...the following week will be a drag for everybody.

Reading your posts carefully here man. You obviously run a tight ship and display a high level of professionalism. When you're through gigging, God forbid that day comes, you got a future in management!


thanx! i take it as a high compliment from you, you have been there,done that,and gotten the T shirts as well . and you're right it IS the drummer that runs up the highest tabs!!!! hahaha has far as mangement goes,i may do that, wont have to carry the PA then! :D

[scott powell]

phase four- WATCH the crowd, are they grimacing when you take a guitar solo,are they showing any signs that you or the band's too loud? watch for these signs,its better to be told to turn up than turn down. NEVER ask if you are too loud, or ask how it sounds out front , because thats a NOOB action,you NEVER want to set yourself up for criticism.
speaking of criticism, i am going to talk about something that took me YEARS to understand,and sometimes to this day i still struggle with how i react to,and that's Hecklers. Booze makes people good looking, brave,and MANY times belligerent. Dont be suprised when the drunks heckle you from the crowd:be it over the songs your playing,the PA,or your ability. its EASY to respond in kind,but that's WRONG, the hecklers are paying customers. to the club owner, YOU are an expense. also,in 99% of the bars i have played, 90% of the crowd goes to that SAME bar every weekend,so they are buddies with the bouncers,waitresses and possibly the club owner,so dont fight if you cant win. plus,when you respond, it gives them the attention they are looking for in the first place,so thats reason enough to not respond. Just ignore them, and slog on. also, dont berate the crowd if they dont applaud, or get into the show, its YOUR job to make them do that. its IS permissible to say, if someone requests a certain band, that they couldnt be here tonite cause they owe ya money.
I am also snotty about behavior onstage, i have seen bands,and had people in my band who want to correct other members mistakes onstage, thats NOT cool,and i dont tolerate it. That infuriates me, if i make a mistake i damn well know i did, dont need it pointed out,and if i'm playing a part wrong,catch me on break and tell me,NOT after the song. dont fight or argue onstage,and if someone screws up, DONT signal it to the crowd. we did a song not long ago,it was the first time we did it,and it wound up an absolute train wreck, i mean it SUCKED. we just laughed it off,told the crowd that was a test,had that been a real song we would not have screwed it up,now back to our regulary scheduled programming. you WILL make mistakes, accept it,deal with,and fuggetaboudit. i used to think the 'note police' were in the audience,or there were going to be jusdges holding up score cards after every song, but they DONT. have fun, thats what youre there for!
Work up a few band toasts,Birthday songs,and anniverseray songs. we do happy Birthday to the tune of 'Rockytop" its catchy, quick,and different. make the crowd part of your show,and they will love you that much more.
be prepared to have requests sent to the stage,and if you do one, send it out to that person over the mic,that goes along ways!
as far as perfor mance, give 10000% every song. if YOU are having fun, its contagious and the crowd will catch it, they will get into the show,and pass it back to you,this starts a very beautiful cycle that you cant BUY, its a great feeling, very addictive. its hard to achieve,and harder to maintain,but boy, when you DO.......... its the like being on top of the world!

[lyleman]

Good stuff to know. I'm adding it to my "gig scrapbook" along with all of Tingly's good stuff.

[scott powell]

Ok, your onstage wailing away, the crowd loves you, you love the crowd, your band , the songs,you love EVERYBODY, you turn towards your wife or G/F who has come with you.........and there is a guy standing at her table hitting one her.........
ok this can go one of two ways.......... A)you stop playing, run to the table,and scream Get away from my woman!!!!!!!!!.or....................
B)you stay in the zone, cause you are at work,let your wife or G/f handle the guy,and be glad you have someone worth hitting on
If you didnt choose B, either forget about playing clubs,or leave your signifigant other at home. this an area you dont have any wiggle room,and you or your band mates CANNOT be fighting with the paying customers. if a guy is getting to be too much,call the bouncer over the PA and have him sort it out, again, there is NO other way to deal with this. my wifea nd i have an understanding: we dont dance with anyone else, nor lead anyone else on,but we dont get mad if the other gets hit on.when guys buy my wife drinks it keeps money in MY pocket!! I'm spending a bit of time on this because its a VERY common problem playing out,and its one that you HAVE to be able to deal with in a mature professional manner.
On the flip side, be careful when ladies dance in fronmt of the stage, i have seen boyfriends get CRAZY jealous over this,especially after a few drinks, so BE CAREFUL. and ya'll thought all you had to do was set your amp up and jam :eek:

[JoseCuervo]

I guess the common sense thing to do is to leave the gf/wife at home....Or you can do what Muddy Waters did one time and jump off the stage and say to the guy's face "Uh uh, ain't gonna be none of that"....Of course, if you're Muddy Waters you can get away with it!

[scott powell]

When you come offstage on break, smile and nod at everyone that looks your way. if someone comes up and compliments you, SMILE ,thank that person,introduce yourself,and get thier name .small gestures like that go ALONG ways with people. you can be rockstar on your third world tour,but for now, be the nicest person on two legs. if somone requests a song,and you dont do that song, try to think of something by that band that you do,or a song in a simular vein.
when the nite is over,make certain you have EVERYTHING before you leave, you leave it,your giving it away. if your doing a two or three nite gig,get all the little walk away stuff like tuners, pedals,mics,and guitars and take them with you. NEVER EVER leave a club with a mic on a stand. it will NOT be there when you come back the next nite, speaking from experince here. drape a cover over ypur amp and your good to go.
when it comes time to get paid, have two people collect the cash,and have the owner count it in front of both of you,it keeps everyone honest. I have had instances before where the owner will just shove a wad of bills in my hand,and walk off. on three different ocassions there have been too much money in the pay. that my friends, is a TEST. he dosent trust you anymore than you trust him,so DO NOT fail the test. bring it to his attention,and give it back to him,tell him he must have been busy, you want to make sure that youre not over paid yada yada. fail the test, you WONT be back. I usually try to ree-book there and then,sometimes they will, sometimes they want to get on just like you do,but ALWAYS try to reebook then. tip the waitress on your way out, because like i said before its very important to keep them on your side,if they are vocal about not liking you, all the club owner hears is that you suck,and he will figure everyone else does to.make sure the tabs are paid, and go to Waffle House, drink coffe and slap each other on the back,cause you DID IT!

[JoseCuervo]

Thanks for the very practical advice Scott, especially the one where the club owner pretends not knowing he has overpaid you and is really waiting to see if you're honest enough to return what isn't your's.

[Tingly]

Great thread. I just soaked it up, like dabbing a piece of fine bread in a good sauce.

It all brought back SUCH precious memories: the screwing we got from the venue two weeks ago...the drunk the month before that...and the guy hitting on my date last weekend...

[iam2phat]

Great advice Scott. Although I'm not going to gig anytime soon, I'll keep this in mind when playing at a club or bar. Great Thread!

[scott powell]

If you are playing a club gig, always be generous if some people you know play come in the club. i have seen countless musicians nut up,or get HUGE ego attacks and say things like ' this is OUR gig only WE can play'. karma is a funny thing, and its best not to run the risk of bad karma due to an inflated ego.plus, it appears as if you are intimidated by the other guys if you dont let them jam,and thast NOT a position i ever want to be in.hell, i like the chance to get out front and hear what it sounds like. also, your playing ina bar to drunks, its not like youre on your third world tour. perspective is a wonderful thing isnt it!
we usually let guests sit in for two songs. if they really suck, only one song. but be NICE ,dont EVER let them know you feel they suck . simply say 'give it up for Scott! make some noise for him! ok we are going to play sweet home alabamma now! and get the guy off the stage. it saves face,and keeps the show rolling.
if a guy is really good, we'll get him up throughout the nite. last week, this guy about 19-20 sat in with us,and the kid could really play, i got him up on two seperate ocassions, and you'd have thought he'd died and gone to heaven, it meant alot to him,and thats cool. goodwill is a great thing, and having him leave thinking positive thoughts a bout us is great, next time he said he will bring a crowd of people to hear him play, and that my friends ,puts the business in the phrase music business

[Plain G]

I'm hoping this thread can stay on J/S for future reference is that possible? It's great reference for everyone young and old. Thanks for taking the time Scott.

[scott powell]

I'm hoping this thread can stay on J/S for future reference is that possible? It's great reference for everyone young and old. Thanks for taking the time Scott.


thanx for the kind words Plain G

[scott powell]

Murphy was a musician, no two ways about it.
ALWAYS bring two of everything. 2 guitars, straps, 2 packs of strings, have 2 extra mic,guitar and speaker cables. a little teeny cable that goes bad can ruin the entire nite if you let it.
i also keep a survival kit with a couple of different screwdrivers, wirecutters,soldering iron,a strong penlight( makes seeing in the dark WAY easier) ohm meter, and fuses that have saved my bacon on more than a few ocassions.
if you can bring a spare amp, do so. if you cant, buy a Direct Box. When your amp goes out ( notice i didnt say if, i said WHEN) you can run your pedals into it,and go direct into the mains. will it sound as good as your amp? NO!!!!! will it get you thru the nite/ YES! and THATS whats important!

in my PA amp rack, i have two amps that are always on. one pushes the subs,the other the mains. there is also an old peavey CSX 800 amp that is a spare. if one of the other amps go out, i can get by with the peavey. i DO remind my bandmates that this is NOT the nite to complain about monitors!
never ever never let the audience know you are having equpipment problems. if i break a string, i take the guitar off,and pick up my spare. if i have a more complex problem, we have a couple of songs that are keyboard heavy and i can adjust what i need, then come back in. DONT stare at the person who is having equipment problems, just keep going.
i was humbled a couple of weeks ago, i was lazy and didnt take spare strings,or a spare guitar. of course the first song first set i popped a High E string,and was reminded the rest of the nite to ALWAYS bring a spare!!!

[Plain G]

Saw David Go Go (Canadian blues guy) break a string one night. Kept his guitar strapped on changed and the string right in front of us. Had a great rap going about how he could switch guitars but that one was his best guitar and he didn't want to go half @$$'d and was gonna make sure we got our money's worth so he was restringing this guitar dmmit!
Also saw Neil Schon break one right at the start of a song on live tv in a post Journey band but he played the whole song solo and all with 5 strings (must not have been a floating bridge)

[scott powell]

Saw David Go Go (Canadian blues guy) break a string one night. Kept his guitar strapped on changed and the string right in front of us. Had a great rap going about how he could switch guitars but that one was his best guitar and he didn't want to go half @$$'d and was gonna make sure we got our money's worth so he was restringing this guitar dmmit!
Also saw Neil Schon break one right at the start of a song on live tv in a post Journey band but he played the whole song solo and all with 5 strings (must not have been a floating bridge)



i saw the same show, he just kept going!

i did too hahahaha, you dont realize how important that High E is until you lose it. it was a LONG nite

[Screw]

May I add??
Make sure you're tight with your band and your playing. You'll look real stupid tryin to impress someone by coming off stage or being a little crazy and end up being 2 measures behind the band. Be solid! that impresses the most

the screw

[scott powell]

May I add??
Make sure you're tight with your band and your playing. You'll look real stupid tryin to impress someone by coming off stage or being a little crazy and end up being 2 measures behind the band. Be solid! that impresses the most

the screw


good advice! i have been there done that ,its hard to hide that kind of mistake

[Screw]

I had a friend playing a club with a wireless in winter. He went out the side door and tried to come back into the club by the kitchen entrance. The band had stopped to find him. He was locked out of the club in 10 degree weather still playing!! We laughed like hell!!!

[scott powell]

I had a friend playing a club with a wireless in winter. He went out the side door and tried to come back into the club by the kitchen entrance. The band had stopped to find him. He was locked out of the club in 10 degree weather still playing!! We laughed like hell!!!


hahaha i cant laugh to hard at that, i went out the side door once,was going to show how cool i was an come in the front door. the doomen stopped me, they had no idea who i was, they thought i was trying to get in free,or was crashing the club............... the singer had to come and get me, cause they WERENT going to let me in

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g236/rbnum1fan/roflmao.gif

[phingerboard]

i swear it wasn't me

[billycat1965]

that was some great advice,hopefully ill get to use it someday ,thanks Billy

[tomac62]

awesome thread

[Screw]

i also saw a guitar player jump off a table and land on some poor womans foot--- she was a good sport

oh, and my uncles band's pa drew so much power at a club, they blew the whole service and set the teleplone pole on fire.

the club reopened a week later with an up to date service

[scott powell]

i also saw a guitar player jump off a table and land on some poor womans foot--- she was a good sport

oh, and my uncles band's pa drew so much power at a club, they blew the whole service and set the teleplone pole on fire.

the club reopened a week later with an up to date service


hhaahahahha thats funny.

once, i was running across the dance floor,jumped and landed on my knees planning to slide a short ways. what i didnt know was they had waxed it earlier that day,and i couldnt stop sliding! i slid into a BIG ole gal,( she was at leat 250 lbs if she was an ounce) and knocked her on top of me . hahaahahaahaa she almost mashed me flat

[Screw]

hhaahahahha thats funny.

once, i was running across the dance floor,jumped and landed on my knees planning to slide a short ways. what i didnt know was they had waxed it earlier that day,and i couldnt stop sliding! i slid into a BIG ole gal,( she was at leat 250 lbs if she was an ounce) and knocked her on top of me . hahaahahaahaa she almost mashed me flat




some people pay good money for that


and the rest of us




AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH

[Screw]

Hey, how about a little on diet and such. What do you eat before, after, during a gig?? rehearsal?? drinks??

Me, i can't eat before i play-- cuz then i play like hell. I drink 3-4 bottles of water during rehearsal, and about 2-3 a set.

After, I pig out !!

if not water, i'm doin corona, amstell, heineken, or my usual vodka drinks with grey goose or belvedere--- on the rocks, with tonic, or OJ (SCREWdrivers, get it??))

Let's hear it, i'm curious

[scott powell]

Hey, how about a little on diet and such. What do you eat before, after, during a gig?? rehearsal?? drinks??

Me, i can't eat before i play-- cuz then i play like hell. I drink 3-4 bottles of water during rehearsal, and about 2-3 a set.

After, I pig out !!

if not water, i'm doin corona, amstell, heineken, or my usual vodka drinks with grey goose or belvedere--- on the rocks, with tonic, or OJ (SCREWdrivers, get it??))

Let's hear it, i'm curious


i eat very lightly before a gig,if i'm full i cant move around onstage as much,anor can i sing as well, i tend to get gassy,and belch.
i havea beer and a shot of crown about 15 min before we play,to loosen me up,and thats it for the night.

[moe]

Hey Scott,

How much do you charge to play a club?? It would seem to me that clubs come in all sizes so there is no real set standard for fees?? How do you know what the right price is to ask so A, You do not screw yourself, B, The owner does not think you are trying to screw them??? Ever play a club for free just to advertise yourself?? Do clubs ever offer contracts if they really like a band and want to keep them around??

Are we there yet? are we there yet? :D

Moe

[scott powell]

Hey Scott,

How much do you charge to play a club?? It would seem to me that clubs come in all sizes so there is no real set standard for fees?? How do you know what the right price is to ask so A, You do not screw yourself, B, The owner does not think you are trying to screw them??? Ever play a club for free just to advertise yourself?? Do clubs ever offer contracts if they really like a band and want to keep them around??

Are we there yet? are we there yet? :D

Moe


great questions Moe! i'll try to answer them
i dont havea set price per club. i make more in some ,and less in others. some of the most important factors when gauging price are
A) proximity- if a club is close i DO charge less. we played a Loco's that was about 10 min from my house,and due to this i really lowballed the price. they only used bands for about 6 months, but that was SWEET while it lasted.

B) the load in- if i have to go up three flights of stairs with all of my equipment,you can bet the price will be higher.

C) can the club support it? - i'm not going in a club that brings in less than 100 people and ask for top dollar, it isnt feasable. there have been several gigs i have done without the keyboard player due to finacial reasons.

D) how bad do i want to play here? - We had the chance to play in front of about 10,000 people opening for Sammy Kershaw. i REALLY wanted this gig,so i played for $600 and dinner for the band. He made 5 grand,and his band split 5 grand, but I had the time of my life , i would have PAID 600 bucks for that experience. sometimes money aint everything

i dont do free shows. the reason is, if you do it for free once,you are setting yourself up fora ROYAL screwing. the club owner will tell you NEXT time he'll p ay you, he ALMOST made enough this time, you guys are getting better! yada yada . i speak this from experience.
what i WILL do, is talk to a club owner about playing, give him a promo pack,and if he acts interested, get everyone in the band there on a sat nite. i'll buy a round of drinks for the band,introduce myself,and ask if we can get up and do a few tunes. 99.99999999% of the time the band will be more than happy to do so. they are getting paid, but WE are doing the playing, plus they can have the opprotunity to sit out front and tell each other how bad we suck suck. bear in mind your playing on someone elses gear , but thats part of the fun. let the club owner know your getting up,and try to take the roof off the club when you do. we'll have our top 3 songs and just BURN them.
its EASY to get up and blow the band away if you are just doing three or four songs ( have done it,and had it done to my band) we will thank the band profusely onstage for letting us play, and be SURE to go shake hands with the club owner on the way out. i have scored MANY gig doing this


as far as asking prices, i'll lowball the first gig, say ask for 400 a nite. everything in life is negotiable. if they wont meet the price,we can find a price,then include a food and drink comp.
the price rises when i think we have proven ourselves. you DONT play to an empty club and demand a raise.

[moe]

Hey Scott,

Thanks for the answer, You are definitely a combat vet eh! All seems very interesting really but I suck when it comes to negotiating prices for anything, I did not notice right away that you are in Atlanta?? Seems to me that there would be a lot of Blues Clubs in your area, You ever go into the studio??? Any Demo CD's out?? Would not mind hearing you in action and I doubt if you will be playing any clubs here in Cebu anytime soon!!

Moe

[scott powell]

Hey Scott,

Thanks for the answer, You are definitely a combat vet eh! All seems very interesting really but I suck when it comes to negotiating prices for anything, I did not notice right away that you are in Atlanta?? Seems to me that there would be a lot of Blues Clubs in your area, You ever go into the studio??? Any Demo CD's out?? Would not mind hearing you in action and I doubt if you will be playing any clubs here in Cebu anytime soon!!

Moe


i have some tunes i cut in my home studio in my soundclick page,and if you are interested i have some live recordings we ripped from the board at a few gigs i can send you . at the end of January we are going to record a new band demo( we just changed singers) and i'll post those as we get them done.

and yes, we do have some good blues clubs in atlanta,but they are HARD to get booked in, most use agencies

[moe]

Hey Scott

Sorry for the delay in answering but I am having alot of internet problems right now, Spending lots of time down or just being only to read, We went and signed with another service provider today but they will not be out to install until sometime next week,

Sure I'd love to hear your live stuff, Do you want me to PM my e-mail addie To you???

Not sure how long I will be able to stay on line, A few minutes a few hours who knows, The present service is unpredictable, So if you do not hear from me for a couple of days that will be why,

Moe

[Jeremy]

Excellent thread, will deffinatley help me if I ever play at a club!

[TheBreeze]

excellent material, i wish i wouldve known half this stuff about the equiptment before we blew the talent show at my school like idiots! haha

but now what im wondering, is how do you "make it" whats after clubs. and how do you get to play there, howd you get the gig of opening for sammmy kershaw? how do you get a record deal. im confused by whats after clubs!

[Hitman!]

I always thought that "survival guide" is gold. It's mostly all my own experience put together in a thread. So I decided to put it all together in a PDF document so everybody can download it, with of course Scott's seal of approval.

Download Scott Powell's Basic Survival Guide For Playing Clubs (http://public.box.net/hitmen)

So download it, keep it, read it, and LISTEN TO MAN!

We all know the vast gigging experience Scott have, me, I played every kind of club you can imagine, from lounge to bikers bar to 5 star hotel to... well, you see my point. In many countries. And I am telling you: LISTEN TO THE MAN! There's a load of common mistakes everybody do, Scott did it, I did it, but you have the chance to learn it now and avoid those dingbat traps.


p.s.:tell me if there's any probs with the link

[texastito]

Thanks Hitmen. I'm glad you put that in .pdf. I downloaded and sent to my band members. Great advise Scott.

[Hitman!]

Thanks Hitmen. I'm glad you put that in .pdf. I downloaded and sent to my band members. Great advise Scott.

Thanks, and I'm glad to see you're spreading the news! :)

[texastito]

We pretty much follow those principals already, but hopefully we can get a few others lined out and corrected.

[scott powell]

thanx again hitmen! that is a RAD download!

[mta113]

Dude, best advice ever. I'm only 15, but it was a VERY interesting read and something I hope to put to good use someday.

[mta113]

Oh, and Hitmen, when I click that link it says "this user has no files uploaded"...

[Hitman!]

Yeah that's weird, sorry about that. Try this link:

http://www.box.net/shared/7u9hvr23si

Let me know if it work.

[nibroc]

Scott, great job on that manual! I'm sending it to our band members.

[scott powell]

Scott, great job on that manual! I'm sending it to our band members.

thanx! glad i could help!

[nj_lanser]

thanks for some great advises scott

[Tekboy]

Great job there, Scott! I have encountered every scenario you mentioned, and unfortunately, a couple more that I think bear mentioning.

1) Do not EVER let anyone connected with your band bring drugs into a club. It is totally unfair to everyone on the premises, dangerous to all, and totally not worth it, as well as totally unprofessional!

2) I have played in some "rural" settings where eventually some of the "good 'ol boys" have had too much to drink, and a huge fight breaks out. At that point, I ALWAYS stopped playing, and while opinions vary on this, my experience is that the brawl ends much sooner when it is not being fed by the music.

3) If you have the misfortune to be playing when that sort of thing happens, it is good to have a microphone stand with the old fashioned round weighted base. :D

[Slackerprince]

I listened to your myspace samples, you guys are very good.
I can't believe you are playing at that level at your age.
Keep it up, and don't waste it all on drugs and alcohol. Trust me, or read the papers, drugs and alcohol will strip you of everything you know and love.
Good luck and keep up the good work.

Slackerprince

[crank]

Good thread. I agree with almost all of what Scott has to say here. I know no one asked but here's my $0.02 of advice.

If you don't have an extra guitar have a string changing song. These days I bring 2 guitars, sometimes 3, but way back when I only had 1 we had a couple "string changing" songs. If I broke a string the band would go into That's Allrignt Mama for the next tune. If the other guy broke one I would play Fulsome Prison Blues. Both sound good stripped down to 1 guitar.

We always try to set up so that everyone can hear everyone. Put those amps where the drummer can hear them.

We do tend to get to the gig at the same time and all help carry the drums, PA, etc. (Per Scott, this might not be such a great idea as our drummer tends to bring a huge kit with tons of hardware. Maybe if he had to carry everything himself...hmmm.)

Set lists and song lists: We go with set lists that also have a list of everything else we play for alternates. We, sometimes will call and audible and change a tune here or there. We also do what Scott mentions regarding requests. yeah Gimme 3 Steps is in the 3rd set, but if someone asks for it, we'll play it for them.

Regarding people who want to play/sing: we've been asking them to stick around for the third set. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.


Regarding requests: If we know it we'll do it. A couple or 3 times we've played songs that we had never tried before, all were late in the evening with a loose (inebriated) crowd.

Advice for Scott: Shorter paragraphs are easier to read.

[scott powell]

Good thread. I agree with almost all of what Scott has to say here. I know no one asked but here's my $0.02 of advice.

If you don't have an extra guitar have a string changing song. These days I bring 2 guitars, sometimes 3, but way back when I only had 1 we had a couple "string changing" songs. If I broke a string the band would go into That's Allrignt Mama for the next tune. If the other guy broke one I would play Fulsome Prison Blues. Both sound good stripped down to 1 guitar.

We always try to set up so that everyone can hear everyone. Put those amps where the drummer can hear them.

We do tend to get to the gig at the same time and all help carry the drums, PA, etc. (Per Scott, this might not be such a great idea as our drummer tends to bring a huge kit with tons of hardware. Maybe if he had to carry everything himself...hmmm.)

Set lists and song lists: We go with set lists that also have a list of everything else we play for alternates. We, sometimes will call and audible and change a tune here or there. We also do what Scott mentions regarding requests. yeah Gimme 3 Steps is in the 3rd set, but if someone asks for it, we'll play it for them.

Regarding people who want to play/sing: we've been asking them to stick around for the third set. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.


Regarding requests: If we know it we'll do it. A couple or 3 times we've played songs that we had never tried before, all were late in the evening with a loose (inebriated) crowd.

Advice for Scott: Shorter paragraphs are easier to read.


excellent points,thanx for adding them !
haha i DO tend to be longwinded, thanx for the advice :)

[Wolfman]

Also, remember that if your band leaves the stage to take a break or something during a long show, have someone sit near the stage and watch your gear. Once there was a big "incident" at one of the clubs I was playing and we had to leave the stage (let's not go in to that, I'm never playing there EVER again), and my nice American Fender Strat was gone.

Just thought I might throw that in. It's common sense, but sometimes you have to reminded.

Another thing about songs. Sometimes when I'm playing a club, and I have some time before I have to go on, I ask the waitresses and the bartender what the regulars like the most, and if there's any songs that get requested a lot, then I plan to work them in to our sets. This will help you work the crowd better. This has also gotten me some brownie points with the managers of one or two clubs in the past.

If you play a club a lot, it's good to get to know the bouncer. He's the guy who basically keeps people from jumping on stage and messing with you while you play. I sometimes remember to tip them after I get paid, exceptially on nights that they have to drag someone off the stage that doesn't belong. In situations like that too, a little thank you goes a long way. If you treat them good, they'll be there if you need them. If they don't like you, they might let some crazy drunk give you hell for a few extra moments before they dispose of them.

One night I was at a club I play a lot, and the lead singer of a band and the bouncer exchanged words because the singer tried to tell him off. About three weeks later, someone started pushing on that lead singer when he was standing near the bouncer. The bouncer just looked over at them and smiled. I always tipped this bouncer and said "Thank you" when he disposed of someone causing trouble with the band, or if he had a rough night. One night when I was playing, some guy put his grimy hands all over my girl, and that bouncer literally went over to him and told him to take his hands off. I tipped him extra that night and thanked him a lot. It pays to have good friends like that.

The other bouncer at that club is my brothers' best friend. Him and I get along, so he keeps an eye on me for my brothers.

Also remember that the bouncer is the guy that the club manager probably respects most. He has to respect him. He keeps order in a drunken place. If something happens, the bouncer is the guy you want on your side.

Before you play a club, if you have a friend who played it before, talk to them. They can use their experience to tell you what to expect. Sometimes when you're on stage, you see things differently then when you are on the floor. Also they can tell you what songs the regulars like.

Sometimes the manager might make a mistake counting bills if he pays in cash. I once had a buddy who was handed a wad of cash that wasn't enough. He went to the manager of the club and was like "Hey we're 20 dollars short here" and the manager thought he was trying to rip him off. My buddy never played at that club again.

Remember, never start a fight with a patron. I did that once, I never worked at that club again. That was about a year ago. They still won't let me play there.

Some clubs have their own sound man. The one that I play the most does. It's also good to get in good with these guys, just like it is with the bouncer. If they like you, they might give their job that little bit extra attention, and that keeps your band sounding at least decent.

[Furious Lopez]

By the by, I transcribed this all into a single PDF document.

[Peeb]

^Nice!!

[cactusandy]

Incredible Scott... excellent advice and wisdom! Through years of playing clubs and dealing with the owner's, waitresses and patrons, et al, following the very same advice has always been the best route to go. This thread should be part of the "musician's bible". Ever give any thought about writing something on band management? Many may find it helpful to know how to audition perspective band members; or how to fire your brother from the band. How often to rehearse? Band discipline etc. I think that many would benefit from your experience.

[shadowtrain]

That was some great advice man.

I recently played my first show out and it was all original rock tracks... but most people do want to hear something they know - otherwise they can't dance, sing along or do much but just drink and listen. Overall though the crowd loved it and it went better than I imagined possible.

I think an really important thing you tapped on was the crowd your playing for...covers are awesome but if you play original songs - go for the college crowd - they don't mind hearing something new - but its never bad idea to know a lot of great covers to stir some initial interest in your band. It sounds like a really rough lifestyle I'm sure to most people and in some ways I think scares a lot of potential musicians from even getting out there - but I would say go for it, live life. I'll definitely be playing live again because that 40 min set we had was like a shot of pure adrenaline.

[Slashfan90210]

This is all great advice. I've got my first full headlining gig on Saturday (I have done previous stuff, i did a local music festival at 14 and a gig last year where I filled in half a set since the band's bassist dislocated his elbow and could only play half the songs), so this is all good stuff to read. It's now downloaded to my brain and I hope to put it to use time and time again.

[Eclectifish]

I finally got around to reading this and it goes 99% with my experience. I'll throw in my own 2 cents here, since I haven't seen it mentioned.

Play within yourself! At a gig, in front of a crowd, is no time to try out new stuff, different voicings, new and challenging solo licks, or generally try to push the envelope of your playing. That's for jam sessions. When you're playing for a crowd, apply the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid). Your band will be tighter. Your audience might not notice if you completely flub up or why, but they will know that there's something different between a crazy wild solo that went totally wrong and one that stays within reasonable bounds and just sounds good.

[Eclectifish]

The only tip I differ on (just a little) is on inviting other people on stage. This depends on a lot of things: Who the "guest" is, the type of club your playing, and the type of music your playing chief among them.

There are times when it's perfectly acceptable and very cool to jam. A blues band, for example, or a classic rock band, where you know that everyone knows the song. But there are times when someone can take over a show, and that can be bad.

Case in point: There's a 17 year old player around here who's pretty good. Not to long ago, though, he got a little drunk and got on stage with a local band (thankfully, not mine). I should mention that the band he jammed with was country and he's strictly a blues player. He's well known and thought of as a bit of a prodigy, so the crowd was really into it. Problem? He didn't want to leave the stage. It became his gig. The band had to do whatever he wanted to play and, when they finally made him get off the stage, the crowd was ****** about it. The whole thing turned into a great gig for him (the bar owner even gave him free drinks and and part of the main band's cut). He got another gig out of the deal with his band. The band that night never got booked there again because the crowd liked him so much better that the owner was convinced they weren't good (remember, most bar owners are idiots - but they have what you want... money).

That is really a worst case scenario - a complete lose/lose for the band. But the way to handle it is to be structured. If you think it will work out, go ahead, but let the "sit in" and the crowd know that it will only be for one (or two) song(s). It's best if you know the person and it's not just some guy off the streets. But I've seen it happen all too often where a "sit in" will turn the crowd on the main band.

Just be careful with this one. If you don't want a "sit in", then turn them down in a respectful. non-arrogant, way. I was in a band about 30 years ago that had a standing "no sit-in" policy. We just told people that we weren't comfortable playing with people when we hadn't rehearsed with them and maybe next time, they could come to the sound check so they could work up a tune with us (of course, they never do).

[scott powell]

^^^ great points Ken,thank you for adding them.

One thing i have learned this year,is that no matter how long you have been playing,bands you have been in or gigs you have played there are still things to be learned.
Always keep an open mind and if the bandleader criticizes you,or has suggestions: LISTEN to what he or she is saying and act upon it.
The band i joined this year was highly critical of my tone,my background vocals, my style of dress and my stage mannerisms. It would have been EASY to tell them to knob off, that i have been playing almost 30 years, hundreds of gigs,yada yada so forth and so on...............................
instead I upgraded my power amp, bought some black t shirts and realized the singer wants someone who can support him and make him look and sound good onstage. . As a result I have been pushed to a higher degree of musicianship,and am playing better and with more edge than i have in years,

[Hitman!]

One thing i have learned this year,is that no matter how long you have been playing,bands you have been in or gigs you have played there are still things to be learned.
Always keep an open mind and if the bandleader criticizes you,or has suggestions: LISTEN to what he or she is saying and act upon it.
The band i joined this year was highly critical of my tone,my background vocals, my style of dress and my stage mannerisms. It would have been EASY to tell them to knob off, that i have been playing almost 30 years, hundreds of gigs,yada yada so forth and so on...............................
instead I upgraded my power amp, bought some black t shirts and realized the singer wants someone who can support him and make him look and sound good onstage. . As a result I have been pushed to a higher degree of musicianship,and am playing better and with more edge than i have in years,

Our little Scott is growing up... :D
I'm glad you realized that, it's the thing that made me gig all those years: listen to the band leader and do all you can to deliver what's in his mind! You're being part of the team instead of a "one-man-show". People can see that and feel that.

[bender62]

Scott,
I found your writeups very interesting and informative. Do you have any words of wisdom of the band members who have microphones that seem to think their stand up comics...(not funny to me at all)...or professional from what I've witnessed..you just never know whats going to come out of their mouths...the songs should flow without so many lags. Also...our band seems to do alot of changing around instruments...any advise regarding how to make this more efficient and have no lags between songs? My husband played professionally for 20 years in a band that did Weddings and big events...this is a first time playing out in a bar band for me, the rest of the guys we played golf with and thought it would be fun to get together and play as a band. We had a product so put it out there. The people dance and sing so they must like us. We could use ALOT of improving though. We have many strengths as well as weaknesses. I am younger than the guys in the band 42, 54,60, 57,59......maybe its just a generation gap unless their jokes just stink. Maybe I'm just going through some sort of mid life musical crisis. If you answer this..keep in mind I'm a woman lead player in a band of guys...me giving my opinion regarding inappropriate jokes must be brought across constructively in a way that I don't just seem like a stick in the mud ..Their jokes really suck...seriously, really. Its embarassing..

[scott powell]

Scott,
I found your writeups very interesting and informative. Do you have any words of wisdom of the band members who have microphones that seem to think their stand up comics...(not funny to me at all)...or professional from what I've witnessed..you just never know whats going to come out of their mouths...the songs should flow without so many lags. Also...our band seems to do alot of changing around instruments...any advise regarding how to make this more efficient and have no lags between songs? My husband played professionally for 20 years in a band that did Weddings and big events...this is a first time playing out in a bar band for me, the rest of the guys we played golf with and thought it would be fun to get together and play as a band. We had a product so put it out there. The people dance and sing so they must like us. We could use ALOT of improving though. We have many strengths as well as weaknesses. I am younger than the guys in the band 42, 54,60, 57,59......maybe its just a generation gap unless their jokes just stink. Maybe I'm just going through some sort of mid life musical crisis. If you answer this..keep in mind I'm a woman lead player in a band of guys...me giving my opinion regarding inappropriate jokes must be brought across constructively in a way that I don't just seem like a stick in the mud ..Their jokes really suck...seriously, really. Its embarassing..

first welcome to JS!

OK,When i ran my band, one of the first things i learned was to have a hard fast rule that NOBODY talked between tunes. leave that stuff to the singer as people are seeing him/her sing and it's more natural for them to do the talking. I did learn that if the singer was faltering, or if a drunk came to the stage and tied up the singer by asking for songs to jump up to the Micand say"while Bennie is getting a request down,please tip your waitresses a nd bartenders" or else we had a few tunes such as 'heatwave' or 'tequila'that we could play a few bars of and then get out. that way noone was talking but there wasnt any dead air( a BIG pet peeve!)
I joined a band this past January and the singer runs the show. one of the first things he told me was that NOBODY but him talks onstage,which of course i totally dug. He fills the spaces,and is quick to jump on the bass player or drummer if they are playing between tunes( thatsa GOOD thing)

my advice would be to do the same as my singer. you may hurt thier feelings at first,but stress to them it isnt professional and they may get the idea.

for changing instruments, we use a set list and i use the same guitar for 90% of the tunes,but know in advance when i am going to change guitars and can plan accordingly. I would stress to the band thhat they need to be prepared,and only change instruments when needed. draw up a set list,and get them to tell you on which songs they are going to change so you will know ahead of time.
If you are the band leader, get a THICK skin and dont be afraid of telling people what you want and how you want it. dont listen to remarks such as ' i have been playing for XX years and know what i am doing' .....democracies are great,but onstage there HAS to be one person running the show

[76Strat]

scott while i dont sing i am one of the frontmen if you will... if i dont have energy the band will run flat and so will the crowd... so inbetween songs i do a little talking not an overwhelming amount... maybe its a little different in a band that only does originals and i play a little different crowd but it seems that the crowd loves it as im just a loveable person in general its how ive gotten to where i am today...

[bender62]

I agree with you Scott...
I am the lead guitarist in the band...I don't sing. On our last practise I brought the topic up. All the guys agreed to it for future gigs.. I told them that I think their particular jokes backfired and that I thought it was unprofessional. The one member said he knew most of the people there so it made it ok..(mind you there was about 200 people in the bar all of which he did not know) ... Thanks for the support Scott.

[Hack]

Great thread. Lots of truth and wisdom here. You won't go wrong doing the things outlined here.

A couple of oservations from my experience:

When loading in or out, never, ever, ever leave any gear unattended in the van/truck. Always 100% of the time have someone (preferably large) keeping an eye on it. It takes about 8 seconds for someone to walk away with your favorite axe, and you don't want to have to hunt someone down and kill them. I follow this religiously and have never had anything go missing.

I also am in the habit of making at least one "idiot check" of the club after I'm done packing up. More than once it saved me from leaving a piece of gear behind. That crap's to expensive to lose it because you were an idiot and left it behind.

Sometimes you'll come across a club owner who tries to get you to take free drinks in lieu of cash. I've found that if you drink at least twice as much as it would have cost him to just pay you, he won't bother making this offer again and just pay cash. Considering how much booze actually costs him, you might have to drink a lot. My band played one such gig where we were ordering pitchers of Bass and pouring every other one down the bathroom sink. He could have payed us an easy $250 (this was many years ago) but ended up comping us a bar tab of over $400. Next time, he just gave us cash.

As far as letting people get up and play with you, that's something I never do, and would not ask to get up at another band's gig. Sometimes you will get a really good player. More often than not, you'll get some drunk idiot (usually with a harmonica) who makes you cringe, at least that's how it always worked for me, so I just ended it. Now when people ask to get up and jam, we tell them that the club's insurance won't allow it. Other people may have better luck with guests, but my policy these days is NO, unless it's someone you know and trust.

*additional note in reference to the above-mentioned harmonice guy: If your band tunes a half-step down, his harmonica most likely will not be in tune, and can't play with you.:D (added bonus, the singer gets a half step break on the high notes)

Getting paid. That's what it's all about, right? A fantastic blues player I knew called Bear, who recently passed, used to say "They either likes ya or they don't. Did ya get the check?"

If you play enough clubs, you will come across the fella who tries to stiff you. Everyone has their own way of dealing with this.When I was playing clubs a lot, we were lucky in that the bass player and I are both 6 ft. plus and ugly, and the few times anyone tried to stiff us we were quickly able to change his mind. Once, when "negotiating" a payment of $500 the bass player picked up a heavy mug and asked how much that huge mirror behind the bar cost. We were promptly paid.

Of course, this style of negotiating has the possibility of severe repurcussions, so use it at your own risk.

Now, I haven't been playing club gigs for a long time, as the pay was never worth the effort. These days we either play events or private parties in large, out of the way places. So some of the things I mentioned might not apply any more. It was a different world 20 years ago.

edit: Come up with a drink named after your band. I used to play in a band called "Giggle Juice". We stole a drink recipe from, I think, Chili's, and re-named it Giggle Juice. It was mostly Cpt. Morgan and OJ with a couple other ingredients. Very tasty. We printed up a bunch of recipe cards with the name on them and put them on all the tables. Before we were done playing, the bar ran out of the Cpt. Morgan! They made a heap of money selling Giggle Juices, and asked us if we would play there every week.

[scott powell]

great observations Hack. i have been stiffed once,and nearly went to jail over it. i got a kick out of it because after some forced negotians to get paid he told us we'd NEVER play his club again:rolleye:

[Hack]

i got a kick out of it because after some forced negotians to get paid he told us we'd NEVER play his club again:rolleye:
That must have broken your heart. I know you were just dying to play there the next weekend!:LMAO:

[Hitman!]

edit: Come up with a drink named after your band. I used to play in a band called "Giggle Juice". We stole a drink recipe from, I think, Chili's, and re-named it Giggle Juice. It was mostly Cpt. Morgan and OJ with a couple other ingredients. Very tasty. We printed up a bunch of recipe cards with the name on them and put them on all the tables. Before we were done playing, the bar ran out of the Cpt. Morgan! They made a heap of money selling Giggle Juices, and asked us if we would play there every week.

That is a great idea. Thanks.

[Brian Krashpad]

Great thread! The main emphasis/vantage here is playing in cover bands, but a LOT of what's been said carries over into playing in other types of bands. I've never played in a true cover band that plays bars (I did play in what I call "party" bands with friends, for about 10 years or so, which did all or predominately covers, but which were oriented more along lines of friendship and having fun than actually making money,and rarely played bars), but I have played in quite a few all-originals rock bands, from roots rock to indie to punk rock to Christian, as well as played about a dozen years now in praise bands at church.

Almost everything in the thread carries over to other types of bands. Wait-- am I saying a punk rock band still has to be professional? Dang straight. A lot of it is simply the ol' Boy Scout Motto-- be prepared. Or to put it in NASA terms for you scientist types-- ensure redundancy in all systems.

Yes, that means spares of everything, including at least one guitar/bass amp head just in case. What I usually do is bring some sort of Swiss-army-knife head, like a solid state PA head, that could replace either a guitar amp or a bass amp in a pinch. That stays out in the van, but it's still there just in case. One of those li'l Crate Power Blocks would be great for that as well.

Always bring extra guitars-- this is even more important for originals bands because you won't be up there all night like a cover band, nor can you simply wait til your next set, because very often there IS no next set-- you have 45 minutes to an hour to knock 'em dead, and if 10 or 15 minutes is wasted on technical problems you could've avoided by bringing a backup, you've kinda *****ed yourself.

Here's a simple one I haven't seen in the thread: Riddle me this, what goes on top in your gig bag/box (the thing with your pedals, chords, tools, etc.) ? Answer: the flashlight (torch for you Limeys), of course. Because without it, you ain't going to be able to SEE any of the rest of what's in there.

Eye contact and interaction with the audience is an even bigger deal with an originals band than a cover band, methinks. Unlike the cover band sitch where patrons may be more concentrated on dancing, drinking, or macking, in all probability there will be more interest in what you're doing in an originals venue. So give them something interesting. That can include stage clothes, all the usual tricks (Angus stomp, Chuck's duck walk, Townsend windmill &/or leap, etc.), so long as they don't overwhelm the set, but at a minimum you needs to look up from that guitar neck.

In some types of bands you may not be in a position to smile, but even in my punk rock band I do so anyhow (ever see Billy Zoom from X play?-- it's impossible to wipe that grin off his face). I couldn't be more happy to be there, and if you communicate that to your audience, they're more apt to like what you're doing. And if you're doing something that calls for you to be all scowly-faced, it's OK to turn it off when you get offstage. Always have time for people who want to give you an attaboy (or grrl) afterwards.

With originals bands, there's more multi-band bills, which brings up new challenges. First, resist the temptation to diss the other bands, whether it be for their style of music, execution onstage, gear, etc. Second, the ol' Golden Rule comes into play-- do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.

A commonplace application-- DON'T run over. Sure you're really cooking and you could jam for an extra 20 minutes at the end of your set, but by doing so you're probably going to ***** over the next band. In the converse sitch, try to handle things diplomatically and indirectly. Going up to the stage and ordering someone to stand down ain't gonna get it. Better to just get out of eyesight range from the stage, get the sound person or stage manager or club owner's attention, point to the invisible wristwatch you're not wearing, and give a *** shoulder shrug. Then THEY can deal with keeping the bill on schedule.

I'll post more about setlists and doing PR later!