Building acoustic instruments without the proper tools

[martinedwards]

There are specialist tools that you can get by without, or bodge around.

Some are pretty essential.

Until today I thought that a router with a bearing cutter to give a 2mm cut for the binding was pretty essential.

then I tried freehand cutting a binding step on a mando I making at the mo......

using a DREMEL!!!!

am I mad?, well it would have been less stressful with the correct tools, but I think I got away with it!!

Then I bent the rosewood binding using a paint stripper gun rather than a bending Iron.......

and held it all in place with 2" masking tape.......

I'll let y'all know how bad it turned out when I "take off the bandages" in the m,orning!!

[mishmannah]

Goodness gracious, this thread could not be BETTER TIMED..

I have got to say my hands are shaking like no-one's business...



Tonight I glued the neck and tail blocks on...and had to break a few rules.

After steam ironing my sides (yes, steam ironing on hot setting, I just dig the smell of hot rosewood) I clamped 'em quick to keep their shape and the heat in for plyability..


Cold Rosewood is brittle. Warm Rosewood, and it's like....putty or something!!!

As my guitar fund has been stopped by my lovely bloke (understandably), I cannot purchase any more specialist tools like cam clamps.

So I had to rest the guitar body on a workbench, top and tail poking 3 inches either end into THIN AIR...

At one point I had a camera tripod ready (what the...) to whack inside the body and screw to place pressure against the glued blocks, but that wasn't needed.

Mainly because my C clamps are pretty small, and I wanted to get them in underneath as well as on top. Plus the fact I can check underneath to see if the rosewood joins are butted together.

I have two large clamps on each end...

One part of the evening you would have seen me to bear a 4ft long, 42 pounds (feels like it) plank of wood on top of my head, whilst hurriedly whacking on a neck block, clamping slightly and moving the part flush with the top of the side, clamping a little more to tightness, holding the heavy clamped other end up with my foot to stop it from crashing on floor.



Oh and the plank of wood was to rest on top of the body, as per Stewmac instructions.


....my driving test was a synch compared to this.

In the morning, I will see if the most foundational part of my guitar build is a botch or not *prays like there is no tommorow*

I daren't join any luthier forums in fear of having my proverbial head chopped off.

So Martin, I will be interested in your binding endeavours...*re-reads thread again* YOU DID FREEHAND DREMEL!! You must have a very steady hand!


You nuts or summat??????? :rotf:

[Ogier]

Hey all,

Personally I think that it is far more important to be proficient with the tools that you do have and use those than to buy some specialty tool that you have never used before. Especially if you are only going to do whatever it is, once.

The guitar that I am in the middle of building is not getting done with anything that could be considered a tool specific to building guitars. But, when you couple 20 years of woodworking experience with the project, you can come up with some very clever ways to make something work for you.

Good going Mish and Martin. I am looking forward to pictures(hint, hint).

[mishmannah]

Martin, how did your binding job go?


I need to know for my own build, you see. :)

[martinedwards]

Surprisingly well!!

there are a few little gaps (like 1/2mm sized) but once I get a few coats of varnish on they'll just dissappear!!!

As for free handing the Dremel.......

I do have a router attachment fo it, so at least it was perpendicular all the time.

I drew a line 2mm in from the edge all the way round, clamped the body to the table and got stuck in!!

BTW, to draw a parallel line round the edge, hold the pencil with your middle finger touching the edge of the wood as a fence and just run round the workpiece. Old woodworkers trick that!!

Pix tomorrow if I remember to bring home my camera.......

[Slight Return]

My friend has been in the luthiery business for over 40 years now (although he didn't consider himself a luthier until he was 6-10 years into building/repairing guitars), and he just picked up a book by Roger Siminoff. According to him, this Siminoff guy really knows what he's talking about. The book he bought is this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0634014684/sr=8-3/qid=1149629722/ref=sr_1_3/102-2907479-9232914?%5Fencoding=UTF8

I don't know anything about building guitars...I can't even imagine cutting the top, back, sides, and neck out of a big piece of wood. X_X

[mishmannah]

Surprisingly well!!

there are a few little gaps (like 1/2mm sized) but once I get a few coats of varnish on they'll just dissappear!!!

As for free handing the Dremel.......

I do have a router attachment fo it, so at least it was perpendicular all the time.

I drew a line 2mm in from the edge all the way round, clamped the body to the table and got stuck in!!

BTW, to draw a parallel line round the edge, hold the pencil with your middle finger touching the edge of the wood as a fence and just run round the workpiece. Old woodworkers trick that!!

Pix tomorrow if I remember to bring home my camera.......

Cool. I am interested in this. Cutting and pasting into word document as I speak, thanks. :)

I'll tell you how I get on with the violin purfling cutter I'm gonna get hold of soon...


I have a Dremel-style tool, and I don't think a standard router attachment would fit...hmmm...

[martinedwards]

you might be pleasantly surprised......

if theres a big screw thread around the chuck then you're laughing.

http://www.mytoolstore.com/dremel/335.jpg

On my (really old) Dremel, theres a big plastic nut that screws off to allow the router allachment to screw on.

I think most other makes have the same screw.

I saw thes in B&Q last week (about £25) if you took yours with you you could try it out first.........

[mishmannah]

Let's see if I am gonna laugh, then...

Being a router noob that I am, here is some photos of the "Dremel" style tool I possess...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mishmannah/dremelthingie1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mishmannah/dremelthingie2.jpg

The black plastic nut does indeed, come off.

[martinedwards]

yup, thats the puppy, screw it into the router attachment and you're off!!

Heres the freehand binding step I cut.......

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600077.jpg

with the neck....

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600078.jpg

hanging to let the 1st coat of varnish dry.....

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600082.jpg

And a close up of the binding. Not perfect, but nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be!!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600084.jpg

Oh yes, heres that draw a parallel line trick. the middle finger becomes a fence to keep the pencil the same distance in all the way round

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e328/gowanedwards/40600087.jpg

[mishmannah]

Your stuff is just excellent...it's great having this medium of the internet to watch people develop!!! How tempted I am to buy that mando too...I am so grateful for the imposed GAS restriction!

Well, thanks yet again for all the valuable tips. A very straight line you have drawn there, sir... :)

[Ogier]

Nice lookin yuke. :) J/K

Nice work though. :)

[martinedwards]

Yuke is a four letter word........

[mishmannah]

Yuke rhymes with...

[martinedwards]

Words and phrases that rhyme with yuke: (35 results)

1 syllable:
boock, brueck, duke, duque, fluke, fuke, glueck, hoock, juke, kook, kueck, leuck, louque, luc, luecke, luick, luke, luque, muecke, nuke, souk, spook, steuck, stueck, tuk, wouk

2 syllables:
baruch, blood fluke, dubuque, dziuk, farouk, grand duke, rebuke

3 syllables:
liver fluke

7 syllables:
gospel according to luke

[mishmannah]

:lolpnd:


You missed ONE out...

















































puke.


WHAT on earth is a wouk? :confuse: Was the compiler drunk or something? :D

[CypressGroove]

Sorry to revive a long-forgotten thread here, but I accidentally clicked 'last' at the top page links, and just wanted to highlight that it's things like this which remind me how blooming brilliant you two are Mish and Martin!

Yay for heath robinson guitar building!

[mishmannah]

LOL, why thankyou, Dave!!! :)

Mad lot, ain't we?

[martinedwards]

mad we may be, but after time you gradually see the value in using the tools designed FOR the job.

I've been slowly buying ods & sods along the way.....

still no router templates though!!! :p

[CypressGroove]

Meh, buying tools for the job? I've taken you guys' inspiration on board and my smoothing plane is my first step in making tools designed for the job...

Next stop fretboard radius sanding thingy I guess... ;)

[martinedwards]

I COULD set up our CNC micro router to make those.........

[mishmannah]

If the tools are made well, they can last you a lifetime.

[CypressGroove]

CNC? That's hardly the derring-do spirit we know and love! ;)

Nothing but a big compass, thin pencil, foam sanding block and straightedge for me! :D

And yes, Mish, agreed - and from what I've seen, they can last considerably longer than a lifetime. The more old wooden planes and plane irons I get experience with, the more respect I have for those well-made tools...

Going to be asking for a few Hock irons and chipbreakers for my birthday, cryogenically tempered - mmmmmmm

[mishmannah]

a few Hock irons and chipbreakers........cryogenically tempered - mmmmmmm

Phwooor, now you're talking!!!! :drunk:

Think of all those sheeny shavings.....

I am now WASing over Japanese tools; might start with a few chisels...

[CypressGroove]

Well, if we're talking japanese, as you know I've ordered one of these: http://www.fine-tools.com/G309455.htm (not from that website) but they're awaiting stock from Japan apparently before they ship my order. The ryobas are thinner in the middle than at the edge, so they don't bind while you're cutting through material. Also, tenuously linked to the subject of japanese saws - I really can't recommend enough turning your coping saw blade around so it cuts on the pull stroke instead of the push - made a huge difference to me in terms of the control I could excercise over the cut.

However, if I had more money to spend recklessly on japanese tools I think I'd really love to have one of these: http://www.fine-tools.com/G309005.htm

Oh and one of these too: http://www.fine-tools.com/G-yoshiwaka.html (for fret slotting...)

[mishmannah]

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: What are they, made of Mithril or something?!?

They are beautiful...really beautiful.....NO WAY can I ever afford them...

I'm looking at bogstandard jap chisels from Axminster, and am considering buying one every six months or something...

[mishmannah]

I have always had a love for Japenese design elements....simple, elegant, exquisite...can you imagine how wonderful this carving knife would feel to use?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/mishmannah/woww.gif

£132 is WAYYY too much...:(

[CypressGroove]

I know exactly what you mean, and that little chink out of the tail which is there to appease the demons who would otherwise destroy the piece as it's 'too perfect'.

To be honest, though, if I was spending £100+ on a knife, it would be the one I posted up there, I just think that, beautiful as those fish knives are, I'd be more comfortable with the straight handles ones...

Ha! Who am I kidding??

"Honey, I just got a cool knife!"

"Ah that's nice dear, how much did it cost?"

"Hundred odd quid"

"..."

"Darling?.."

"Dave, hand me the knife."

Hehe :)

[mishmannah]

:lmao: nice one!

[CypressGroove]

You know what, it occurs to me that when I looked into this building thing and you and Martin both said to me 'Careful, WAS and TAS are worse than GAS' I was all calm and figured 'Meh, GAS is controllable, s'no big deal'

However, how wrong can I be?

I now no longer spend virtually any web time looking at pretty guitars, with the exception of when on here or the OLF someone posts that they've finished one.

Instead I spend all my time on the web looking at places like Dieter Smidt's fine tools, or classic hand tools, or ebay, looking for things like Planemaker's Floats, disston tenon saws and old sorby drawknifes - things I didn't even know existed before I got down this route.

I no longer spend time down at the acoustic music company looking at guitars from famous makers.

Instead I take every oppurtunity to pop into hardwood suppliers and hardware stores to see if I can find nice wood or some tool which looks reasonable and I don't have to wait for the postman to deliver.

What makes it ten times worse than GAS IMO is that with GAS you might lust after that Ryan or Lowden, but they're many thousands of pounds, so you can rationalise it as a pipe dream.

However with TAS and WAS you're talking less than £50 for most handtools and all but the most incredible wood. It's all achievable on a monthly basis, but it all mounts up...

That's before you even take a visit to Stewmac or LMII for the specialist tools.

Beginners, or those considering taking this hobby up take heed! This is a dangerous slipperly slope to TAS and WAS insanity which will slip into the deepest recesses of your brain insipidly and take over before you realise what's happened!

Ok rant over...

[martinedwards]

so true!!

[CypressGroove]

Hahaha - I think if I ever find myself buying this (http://www.fine-tools.com/G302613.htm) then I know I've been overcome with TAS.

I mean it is strictly speaking a saw I suppose... ;)

[mishmannah]

:lmao:

STOP linking us to that SITE!!!!
:D

[martinedwards]

it comes with a gigbag!!!!

http://www.fine-tools.com/feldmann1c.jpg:LMAO:

how mich extra for a flight case?

[Tingly]

I finally have an excuse as to why *I* am not a Master Builder.

It is NOT, as some might imply, the lack of ability!

I just ain't got the right tools...

[ForestKindred]

i KNOW i dont have the right tools..... but thats what makes it half the fun. figuring out which tool i will use to get the same result. though i did buy a tiny plane for leveling the other day, and am thinking of larger though i need to find a good tool supply. home stupid, b'lowes, and any other hardware store is laaaaammmmmmeeeeeeeee.
been away working some union gigs so now i have a buck or two, looking at some real tone wood. for around fifty dollars i can get a b/s set and a top. not bad.
update progress soon, thinking back there are around five or six started in various states.