DIY Tube Amp

[_Chris_]

Has anyone here built their own amp, tube or ss?

I need a new amp, I've got a Line 6 Spider II, but the distortions too muddy, and I can't get a decent clean tone. Just wondering about building one myself, will I be able to get a good high quality sound, and how much is it likely to cost?

I'm fine with electrics/wiring etc

Thanks guys - Mods, please fell free to move this if it's in the wrong section.

[Turbo7MN]

Yep.

You'll have to get more specific about what you're looking for in an amp and I may be able to steer you in the direction of a kit amp that will give you the tone you're looking for. Handwired tube amps done right will pretty much always yield a much higher quality sound than anything else.

[_Chris_]

Thanks,

Looking for decent sustain, clean clear distortion (if that makes any sense!) at the moment, if I let a notering during a solo, as soon as I play the next note (while still fretting the first) I just get a horrible muddy noise, is not my playing, as it sounds fine on my friends Peavey.

Playing, or trying to play, a lot of satriani, so adjustable tone and reverb required. I like to rock out as well though, so need some heavy distortion for Iron Maiden/Metallca/GnR.

So... very adjustable tone and distortion from mild crunch to full on metal.... all advice more than welcome

[Munga]

Building a hi gain amp for your first build is not recommended.

[Turbo7MN]

It's not easy to build an amp like that. There's so many components on amps like Meas, more complex Marshalls, etc it's not really practical or even possible in some cases to build a handwired clone. If you were looking for a good clean amp, blues amp, etc. it would be a different matter.

You might like a Trainwreck clone. They are not for inexpereinced builders however. Ceriatone apparently makes a very good Trainwreck Express clone that you may like. You don't need reverb nearly as much as you think you do.

-Darren

[Munga]

It's not easy to build an amp like that. There's so many components on amps like Meas, more complex Marshalls, etc it's not really practical or even possible in some cases to build a handwired clone. If you were looking for a good clean amp, blues amp, etc. it would be a different matter.

You might like a Trainwreck clone. They are not for inexpereinced builders however. Ceriatone apparently makes a very good Trainwreck Express clone that you may like. You don't need reverb nearly as much as you think you do.

-Darren

Unfortunately, I would not recommend the Trainwreck for high gain metalheads. High gain is possible with humbuckers and pedals. HOWEVER, the amp is a beast at best. At worst, you won't be able to control it at all.
I would suggest if you really wanted to go that route, to either get one of the hi gain Ted Weber kits, OR get the JCM800 from Ceriatone.


Alec

[_Chris_]

OK slight change of plan...

Now I'm looking for a great warm clean sound from the amp itself, and I plan to use effects pedals for the distortion and other effects I may need.

Would this work?

Really looking to learn as much as possible, to be able to eventually make my own amp to be exactly like I want.

Thanks for the replies

[Munga]

OK slight change of plan...

Now I'm looking for a great warm clean sound from the amp itself, and I plan to use effects pedals for the distortion and other effects I may need.

Would this work?

Really looking to learn as much as possible, to be able to eventually make my own amp to be exactly like I want.

Thanks for the replies

That works better. You can get some sort of blackface kit without reverb or tremolo that would make it much easier. Or you could get a high powered tweed kit. Or anything, pretty much.


How many watts?

[_Chris_]

Not too fussed about the watts, I don't need it to be mega loud, as it will only be played in my living room, and I doubt my girlfriend will be too impressed with a monster amp :)

Really really want good sound quality, if that means more watts then so be it.

I've never owned a tube amp before, from the little I understand, to get the best sound you have to crank the volume up a bit or use an overdrive pedal? Is this right, as most of the time I'll need to keep the volume at a sensible level.

[Munga]

Whats your price range?

[jnoonan22]

Not too fussed about the watts, I don't need it to be mega loud, as it will only be played in my living room, and I doubt my girlfriend will be too impressed with a monster amp :)

Really really want good sound quality, if that means more watts then so be it.

I've never owned a tube amp before, from the little I understand, to get the best sound you have to crank the volume up a bit or use an overdrive pedal? Is this right, as most of the time I'll need to keep the volume at a sensible level.

well, most people like the cranked distorted tones of power tube breakup better than preamplifier gain, but that's kinda subjective. still, if that's what you are going for but you are expecting volume at a sensible level, your gonna have a tough time. even 5watt single ended amps are d$&m loud when cranked.

What kinda tones are you looking for? Do you have any idea what kind of output tube you would prefer to use, given a power expectation? are you making an amp head or a combo? Do you prefer more of a marshall tone or a fender tone? how "tubey" do you want your tone? lot's of questions need answering before diving into this project, but there's lots of knowledgable people here who would be happy to help. gonna need more input from you though.

[_Chris_]

Budget is about £150/$300, this doesn’t include the amp enclosure, and I may be able to get very cheap tubes (fingers crossed).
Looking at just making a head, I’ve got a decent speaker to hook it up to.
Marshall tone over Fender.

I’m looking for a nice warm smooth tone, no harsh ‘edges’, need bass/mid/high control, which can be distorted well through a pedal.

Quite hard to describe what I’m looking for, I don’t know what the different tubes sound like, but I know I want to be able to change them easily in the future if my tastes change. Looking on the web now for a site with different tubes played through the same amp playing the same riff.

I doubt I’ll buy a kit online, most likely buy the components separately and get the schematic.

[jnoonan22]

Well that's a start. OK, marshall uses EL34 output tubes, and when these break up, they contribute to that infamous marshall tone. Problem is, these tubes are very high power by design. They will operate fine at lower plate voltages, but with their power handling capacity, they are hard to "push" into overdrive in lower-powered amps, and when you do push them into overdrive, rest assured that it will not be at a sensible volume level...

A compromise might be the EL84 output tube, which can be thought of as the little brother of the EL34. They not tonally identical by any means, it can definitely get you close to the marshall tone, but at much more reasonable volume levels. These are tubes used mainly by Vox. A single EL84 can put out approx. 5 watts in class A design.

Smoother or "creamier" tube tone and breakup however is often more attributed to the 6V6 and 6L6 output tubes, which are traditionally Fender type tubes. Here is a rule of thumb though to keep in mind as you keep looking into amp design:

For smoother more tubey tone, you want to use higher plate currents. This applies to both the preamp tubes (12AX7s) as well as the output tubes. The higher the current you have running through the tube, the higher voltage being dropped at the cathode, which means the LOWER THE AMOUNT OF GAIN of that particular stage. Just something to keep in mind.

[_Chris_]

Thanks for a great reply.

I was expecting to use 4 tubes, just based on the pictures of others home made amps, looks like 1 will be fine for my power needs!

I’ll see if I can put two different tubes in the amp and have a switch to go from a Smooth tube to Crunchy(ish) tube, if that’s not possible, I guess I could always buy two tubes and just swap them depending on how I feel (and bias them each time).

I might be able to get/borrow a few tubes for free, so I may start by building a very simple, very cheap amp and building it up, the most expensive part would be the power supply (unless I can find something suitable lying around).

[Turbo7MN]

So the extent of your tube amp knowledge is what you have gathered from looking at pictures on the internet yet you feel confident designing, building, and likely troubleshooting an amp from scratch. Okay.

One question for you - can you read schematics?

-Darren

[Munga]

Thanks for a great reply.

I was expecting to use 4 tubes, just based on the pictures of others home made amps, looks like 1 will be fine for my power needs!

I’ll see if I can put two different tubes in the amp and have a switch to go from a Smooth tube to Crunchy(ish) tube, if that’s not possible, I guess I could always buy two tubes and just swap them depending on how I feel (and bias them each time).

I might be able to get/borrow a few tubes for free, so I may start by building a very simple, very cheap amp and building it up, the most expensive part would be the power supply (unless I can find something suitable lying around).

Unfortunately, it is slightly more complicated than that. :o

[_Chris_]

:D

Yes I can read schematics, and no, I don't have any current knowledge of tube amps, but am fine building things from components, and can solder well, down to eeprom size chips.

I wouldn't design something myself yet (wouldn't know where to start), I'd take a working design and build that instead. Then, modifiy it to suit my needs better, which seems to be 'just' changing pots/resisters/caps/etc for different values depending on what sort of tone you require.

I'm basically fed up with my amp, I don't want to spend out money on another one that I'll be bored of in 6 months time, so if I take the time to learn and build one, if/when I want something different I can modify it myself.... thats the idea anyway!

I've got a good friend whose worked with tubes and electrics before (although not specifically a guitar amp) who is itching to help where he can.

[_Chris_]

Unfortunately, it is slightly more complicated than that. :o

Without doubt, just hoping that it's technically possible, I'm sure if it is someone will post the schematics.

[Munga]

:D

Yes I can read schematics, and no, I don't have any current knowledge of tube amps, but am fine building things from components, and can solder well, down to eeprom size chips.

I wouldn't design something myself yet (wouldn't know where to start), I'd take a working design and build that instead. Then, modifiy it to suit my needs better, which seems to be 'just' changing pots/resisters/caps/etc for different values depending on what sort of tone you require.

I'm basically fed up with my amp, I don't want to spend out money on another one that I'll be bored of in 6 months time, so if I take the time to learn and build one, if/when I want something different I can modify it myself.... thats the idea anyway!

I've got a good friend whose worked with tubes and electrics before (although not specifically a guitar amp) who is itching to help where he can.

For your first build, I would suggest building straight from a kit with no modifications. Theres just a lot that can go wrong.

To recommend you a kit, I need to know a couple things. How loud do you want it? Do you intend to crank it for power tube distortion? What kind of music do you listen to?

[_Chris_]

It doesn't have to be very loud, not very loud at all, it will just be used in the living room, louder than a conversation though obviously, just not 'can't hear myself think' loud. i've got a 30w solid state amp now that I never turn past 2.5 if that helps.

I'd like to crank it for the tube distortion, so I guess I'll need small tubes so I don't have to go too loud to get there.

I listen to Guns N Roses, Metallica, College Rock (green day/blink 182 etc), Joe Satriani.

I'll mainly be playing lead riffs/solo's/melodies, alot of Satch at the moment and some GnR solos.

Thanks

[Munga]

It doesn't have to be very loud, not very loud at all, it will just be used in the living room, louder than a conversation though obviously, just not 'can't hear myself think' loud. i've got a 30w solid state amp now that I never turn past 2.5 if that helps.

I'd like to crank it for the tube distortion, so I guess I'll need small tubes so I don't have to go too loud to get there.

I listen to Guns N Roses, Metallica, College Rock (green day/blink 182 etc), Joe Satriani.

I'll mainly be playing lead riffs/solo's/melodies, alot of Satch at the moment and some GnR solos.

Thanks

Are you sure you don't wanna buy one? The only amp I can think of that you can build with that much gain stock is: http://www.ceriatone.com/productSubPages/marshallJCM800_2204/marshallJCM800_2204.htm

And to "access" that gain, you would either have to crank it or install a master volume. Smaller tubes do not equal smaller sound, unfortunately.

In my honest opinion, for the music you play, I think you should buy one, unless you don't mind building a little 5 watt champ, which is what Eric Clapton used for the lead tone in Layla.
Instead, I would recommend picking up a Marshall, Mesa, or Peavey.

[jnoonan22]

if you can read schematics decently already, give this site a looksie to start getting an idea of tube amp design. they have a forum as well for asking any advanced questions, but it will definitely give you a couple of options, styles, ideas of where to head:

www.ax84.com

[_Chris_]

Excellent, thanks guys, will update this once I've decided what to do