Where do YOU start....?

[genereaux]

With the riff, or the words?

I'm a pack rat by nature, physically AND mentally. So, I find myself coming up with a hook or a line and just 'keeping' it for a while (sometimes QUITE a while) until, somehow, it just becomes a song.

But typically, when I'm writing alone, I'll find a line. It'll inspire some music to go under it. Together, it pushes me to find more words. Then some more noise till, eventually, it becomes a song.
That's how it goes for me about 75% of the time. How 'bout you? Do you write out a page of words then tack it to some music? Or do you arrange three to six minutes of music then start throwing words at it?


sean

[Lazy Bee]

I'm always playing or making music of some kind hoping to trigger a creative lyrical or melodic response in the o cranium. When that fails..as it usually does...I just have to wait for something good to float up or drop in.

While waiting.... and waiting.... there's all kinds of techniques, and things I do to trick my brain into creating. I'll go with that stuff in the absence of a great idea. I've never written anything, no matter how bad it was, that didn't help me improve the craft of writing.

But in the end, for me, the best ideas fly in off the radar. Generally I'm not even thinking about music or writing. Something, some event, or some little truth in life kind of defines and or reveals itself to me for a moment and I'm off to the races. It's usually a title, but here lately a great opening line works just as well. Those ideas/songs write themselves so fast and polish up so nice. It's worth the wait as opposed to anything else I've tried.

Writing is the easy part for me anymore. Something worth writing about is another matter.

[Hitman!]

I'm stealing all the time... not from other songs, but by books, articles, etc. Oh wait, they call that "being inspired by"... ok, I feel better ;)

Really, all I need is one line to put a hook (musical hook) in my head and start writing. I write in french most of the time, but even in english sometimes I start with that one line, compose the music and have the lyrics done by a lyricist later. That's the way I always work. Honestly it's very hard for me to compose music onto the lyrics, I prefer the opposite.

[genereaux]

I'm always playing or making music of some kind hoping to trigger a creative lyrical or melodic response in the o cranium. When that fails..as it usually does...I just have to wait for something good to float up or drop in.

While waiting.... and waiting.... there's all kinds of techniques, and things I do to trick my brain into creating. I'll go with that stuff in the absence of a great idea. I've never written anything, no matter how bad it was, that didn't help me improve the craft of writing.
...
I do as well, but I find between my 'creative' spurts, I'm in the middle of a song, so I'm crafting the rest of the song with tricks navigating through the three or four waypoints of 'inspired genius' that make up the bulk of the song.


But in the end, for me, the best ideas fly in off the radar. Generally I'm not even thinking about music or writing. Something, some event, or some little truth in life kind of defines and or reveals itself to me for a moment and I'm off to the races. It's usually a title, but here lately a great opening line works just as well...
I agree. I've found the best 'trick' is keep open to the brief windows of inspiration, that, oddly enough- are EVERYWHERE. Once you've 'taught' yourself to recognize and hold onto them, fleshing them out into a song becomes the easy part.


Writing is the easy part for me anymore. Something worth writing about is another matter.
THAT, is the key. Typically, most of the fleeting bits of inspiration come as I'm driving or working or whatnot and cycling through whatever(or whoever) is causing me aggravation at the moment, so when the inspiration hits- it's relevant to something that needs to be 'said'.
Hopefully, that's a useful trick for those who have trouble with finding something to say.


I'm stealing all the time... not from other songs, but by books, articles, etc. Oh wait, they call that "being inspired by"... ok, I feel better ;)

Really, all I need is one line to put a hook (musical hook) in my head and start writing. I write in french most of the time, but even in english sometimes I start with that one line, compose the music and have the lyrics done by a lyricist later. That's the way I always work...

Interesting. Can I ask why you typically turn it over to a lyricist? Or is it a regular collaborator that is essentially you're songwriting partner?

Personally, I've never had the best results in those scenarios where the words or music are brought to me to construct the other half. The common exception being in a steady band environment with another strong writer- wherein we tend to write out a given song concurrently.

Another bone of contention I hold with collobortive situations is, there is invariably at least ONE kickazz song that, after that songwriting partner goes away, I have a killer song that I'm conflicted about playing/releasing simply because of ethical/legal red tape.

Honestly it's very hard for me to compose music onto the lyrics, I prefer the opposite.
I agree. At least in getting the song started. After I have the process up and running, it becomes a trapeze act of lyrics leading to music, music inspiring more words and back and forth to completion.


sean

[Hitman!]

Interesting. Can I ask why you typically turn it over to a lyricist? Or is it a regular collaborator that is essentially you're songwriting partner?


sean

It's simple, I can barely write a reply on JS in english, can you imagine me writing a full song? :D Sounds funny but true.

I have a steady partner in songwriting, we have a Lennon/McCartney deal, whoever put the most idea in a song doesn't matter, we are 50-50 'coz anyway by the end we work as much. But the day a song goes up on the charts, we both are rewarded. D'ya follow me?

But we are both more composers than lyricists. With time we find some precious partners to write lyrics but nothing exclusive or anything like that. It is very hard to find good lyricists though. Somebody who will really understand what the song stand for and write the appropriate lyrics.

[genereaux]

Well, then.....

What's your native tongue?

For the record, I have NEVER got the sense, reading any of your posts, that english was not native or even an early second language for you.
Methinks you don't give yourself enough credit.......

It is very hard to find good lyricists though. Somebody who will really understand what the song stand for and write the appropriate lyrics.
That's sorta what promted my question. Finding the 'right' collaborator is often HARDER than finding Ms. Right (or Mr., dep on gender/orientation etc)



sean

[Hitman!]

Well, then.....

What's your native tongue?

For the record, I have NEVER got the sense, reading any of your posts, that english was not native or even an early second language for you.
Methinks you don't give yourself enough credit.......


sean

Well thanks for the encouraging words :)

I said in my first post above I write in french most of the time, you can guess it's my native language. I'm from Québec, Canada btw. I started to learn english 4 years ago and still have some problems saying what I really think, if you see what I mean, so writing songs, with images and stuff, is a bit too hard. Yet. And I started to learn Indonesian... I don't know if I'll see an end of it! (that's a good example, I don't know if I used this last expression the right way... ah well...)

[Mr. Boston]

MOST of the time I have the song more or less assembled musically before lyrics enter into it. It starts with a phrase or riff I like the sound of; then sometimes grows from there into chord progressions and additional parts. I let the overall ambient mood of the music spark an emotional response, and I write words from there. I've only very rarely been able to start with pre-written lyrics and fit music around them. I think mainly it's because much of what I do musically is accidental and unexpected, as if an ethereal force is guiding my hand; whereas lyric-writing is very intentional and deliberate for me. So I'll let my emotions write the music, then come back into it with lyrics and themes that fit.

[Vortexan]

I have better results coming up with the music first. We come up with a chord progression/riff that sounds good and generally do a jam on it. I then burn it down to a CD and live with it for a while. I watch the evening news in the garage a lot with a dry-erase board and get ideas from the news while also listening to the CD. I also take it in the truck with me and inspiration will usually come at some point. Thats my method and I'm sticking to it...

[genereaux]

I then burn it down to a CD and live with it for a while........get ideas from the news while also listening to the CD. I also take it in the truck with me and inspiration will usually come at some point. Thats my method and I'm sticking to it...

I like the idea of burning it to disc, but I don't really do it that much.
I wind up just running it in my head over and over and over. Which is fine, because I think it stays flexible that way. My 'ping-pong' method (word begets noise begets word begets...) often triggers an inspiration, which works fantastic for the song- but may not always fit in the original incarnation of the piece. So I sometimes alter the way it runs through my head. A little bit easier than doing it to a cd..........



sean

[Vortexan]

I like the idea of burning it to disc, but I don't really do it that much.
I wind up just running it in my head over and over and over. Which is fine, because I think it stays flexible that way. My 'ping-pong' method (word begets noise begets word begets...) often triggers an inspiration, which works fantastic for the song- but may not always fit in the original incarnation of the piece. So I sometimes alter the way it runs through my head. A little bit easier than doing it to a cd..........



sean
Yea the finished song is never exactly like the demo. The verses and chorus always change. I think flexible is the key word when trying to make something gel. However the CD method is working pretty well for me.

[Evildoer]

I start with a strong premise. Then I think of different ways to explore
that premise. The feel of the lyrics usually determines if in a major
or minor key. Lyrics come very easily to me. Melodies, not so much.

I generally write songs in three keys

[G] Glum
[M] Morose
[A] Absurd

[Godrock]

Different people have different styles and different ways of thinkin'.
If I stick to my poet roots my songs don't wind up stinkin'.

I know you will read these lines and wonder "what's he smokin'?"
When in fact (I would not lie)--I'm really only jokin'...

Hear that (above) like Mick Jagger's whining them out and slurring them together.

Then find yourself imagining a tune. That's how I do it...most times.

[freetime]

I write instrumentals. ;)

[Furious Lopez]

I write instrumentals. ;)

:LMAO:




I usually start wherever inspiration does. If I write good lyrics first I keep them close by until I play something that makes me think of them.

If I write the music first I will listen to it and analyze it. What color is the music? Tone? Tempo? Temperature? Setting? Weather?

I may have minor synesthesia as I generally am assaulted with sensations/colors when I hear music. Then again, maybe I'm just craaaaazy. :R

[Godrock]

I write instrumentals. ;)
:LMAO: :headbang:

[neonXninja]

you definetly start with the lyrics.
think of something that makes you really PO'd and write about it.

if you recite it to yourself enough times in the rhythm you want it to flow in and eventually a tune will come to mind. hopefully.

sing it, play it whatever.

done.

[Evildoer]

you definetly start with the lyrics.
think of something that makes you really PO'd and write about it.

if you recite it to yourself enough times in the rhythm you want it to flow in and eventually a tune will come to mind. hopefully.

sing it, play it whatever.

done.

If you can't feel it, you can't write it or sing it.

[Peeb]

Starting with words or music?

I feel strongly both ways. ;)

[genereaux]

.....if you recite it to yourself enough times in the rhythm you want it to flow in and eventually a tune will come to mind. hopefully.
True enough, but I find it works equally as well in both directions(words>music/music>words), at least for me.

If you can't feel it, you can't write it or sing it.
I very much agree..........

Starting with words or music?

I feel strongly both ways. ;)
and I very much agree with THAT, as well.


Presently, I'm working a little out of my element; My other guitarist came up with a riff (riffS, actually. Basically a whole songs worth of groove) to which I have to find some words.

Though I've never tried it before, this time I opted to record his series of riffs and cut them together in Cubase to resemble a song and just keep playing it over and over till the words come.
At first, I was still coming up blank (well, SOME words came to me), but I eventually changed his 'verse' riff with the 'bridge' riff and it's starting to come out a LOT easier.
I'll keep you posted.......

sean