setting up???

[childsy]

hey all,

our band has 4 members - 2 guitarists, one bass and me on drums. we have one lead guitarist and one lead singer (the rest do back up vocals)

we have a pretty good set up, therefore we seem to play loud everytime we jam. i dont know why we play loud, but im just wanting to know how to pick the correct volume for gigs? for example, how do we get the volumes, pitch etc correct for playing in a pub and for playing in a hall? i would like us to sound good (hear all instruments and vocals) at a good volume level.

does anyone have any ideas/tips that could help? and does it make a difference where all the equipment and instuments are put?

thanx

[100%TEXAN]

You need to adjust for the venue man. Depends on your equipment to. In a small venue, you don't really need to run your rigs through the PA. You usually can get away using it just for vocals - maybe drums, maybe not. Drums can be a judgement call.

Also, you can't always just set the levels and call it a day. Your'e going to be constantly futzing with it and tewakind it. Especially if you have a mixture of loud and soft songs and/or a mix of other instruments that are only occasionally used. Like if you have a harp player on some songs, or if you have a percussionist who plays all the funky blocks and shakers and stuff, etc.

Another thing is, before the place fills up, you won't need you mains/amps as loud as when the place packs. bodies absorbe sound and, as the place fills up, you're gonna hafta adjust. Not only that, the acoustics in an empty room - like when you set up and do sound check a lot of times, is gonna be different than what it will be as the place fills up and you will, from time to time, find you need to re-EQ on the fly.

Having a sound man is a big help, otherwise you gotta set the mixer somewhere close to you on stage. If you have a wireless rig, you can wander out in front of the stage and see if anything needs adjusting. If not, having the singer wander off stage and check during instrumental breaks works as well.

Hope that helps some . . .

[Brendo613]

I like the instrumental ideer there. In fact, I like it so much that this is my 700th post :026::022:

I haven't gotten into playing gigs yet, since all of my "friends" are "non-devoted musical appreciators" :banghd:. Anyway, I've thought about this as well, because I have a 15-watt Fender Pro Junior that has plenty of punch when set up high for a three-piece jam in the basement, but when other people join in, then I plug into the 50-watt Crate ... I should probably have something inbetween 15 and 50, actually :lmao:

=Brendan= :worm:

[Keith]

I agree with Tex on this.Dynamics, dynamics,Dynamics.If you play a small club, you have to play small drums (not the size, Volume).Most clubs that I play will hold anywhere between 100 to 1000 people.I have to adjust my "on-stage" volume just enough that if I decide to move around (which I do a hell of alot) I can hear it, but not to the point where the onstage throw goes past the stage.And since I play drums too, Ive had to adjust my presence depending on the venue size, stage size and the type of stage monitor or board wattage being used.A good setup would be to hear guitar in one monitor, Vox in the other.I tell the soundman that this is what I want before sound check.As mentioned before, have a friend or band member go out while you do sound check and listen not to the final out mix, but if you can hear any onstage volume.If there is no onstage throw-out, and everyone can hear everybody else ok ONSTAGE, then you have the perfect volume.Remeber to always discuss in length (if you can) to the soundman, what you want, how loud you normaly play in rehearsal.The soundman is your best friend to creating a gr8 sounding show past the stage speakers.Buy him a beer and sit down with him(whole band) say at least an hour before sound check.Get to know him and if he's cool, like most SM are, he'll set you up nicely for a decent gig.And always, always always, thank the man behind the board for helpin you do your show. And mention him by name..It's always the lil guy that doesnt get seen that makes the difference.
(Can ya tell that I've been a sound man myself once or twice in my life ;) )

[Briza]

what Tex and Keith said

[Rayman]

Yes yes - hand the reins to the sound guy. I'm plugging directly into our PA at gigs, which gives the sound guy total control over my volume in the main speakers and the stage speakers. That's mainly because I don't have an amp, but even when I do pick up an amp at some stage I'm going to buy something that sounds good at a low volume, then stick a mic in front of it and keep the sound guy in control. I don't want him having to rush up on stage every couple of songs to twiddle the volume knob on the amp. It's much easier if he's sitting comfortably with the mixer in front of him, and can tweak everything from there.

Same goes for the bassist. He plugs into a bass amp, then he runs a lead from the 'direct in' socket of the amp to the mixer, and again the sound guy has control over the volume. We've never played in a venue big enough for the drums to need amplification. Excessive volume isn't part of our 'style'. We just play good music, and play it well, and play it at a volume where people don't need to reach for the earplugs. It seems to work. I've never understood why some bands feel like they have to be so damn loud.

If everyone's going through the PA, it doesn't matter all that much where your amps are sitting on stage. The sound's going to be coming out of the main speakers sitting at either side of the stage facing the audience. Avoid things like pointing speakers towards microphones, because you don't want your guitar amp to be feeding into the vocalists mic - although it shouldn't be a big problem if it's the right kind of mic, and the speaker's not sitting too close to it. Hmmm... the on-stage speakers are very important. They're the most important things to place well, as that's the sound you're going to be relying on to carry you through the gig. Ideally everyone in the band would have their own speaker, but often you're having to share. In that situation it's a good idea to point the guitar and bass amps in the direction of the drummer as much as possible, so that he can go without a monitor. Or point your guitar amp towards yourself, and share the vocalists speaker so you're able to hear the singer and the drummer as you play. Get everything set up nice and early so you can muck around with this kind of thing before you get started.

[lenchmob]

I agree with Tex on this.Dynamics, dynamics,Dynamics.If you play a small club, you have to play small drums (not the size, Volume).Most clubs that I play will hold anywhere between 100 to 1000 people.I have to adjust my "on-stage" volume just enough that if I decide to move around (which I do a hell of alot) I can hear it, but not to the point where the onstage throw goes past the stage.And since I play drums too, Ive had to adjust my presence depending on the venue size, stage size and the type of stage monitor or board wattage being used.A good setup would be to hear guitar in one monitor, Vox in the other.I tell the soundman that this is what I want before sound check.As mentioned before, have a friend or band member go out while you do sound check and listen not to the final out mix, but if you can hear any onstage volume.If there is no onstage throw-out, and everyone can hear everybody else ok ONSTAGE, then you have the perfect volume.Remeber to always discuss in length (if you can) to the soundman, what you want, how loud you normaly play in rehearsal.The soundman is your best friend to creating a gr8 sounding show past the stage speakers.Buy him a beer and sit down with him(whole band) say at least an hour before sound check.Get to know him and if he's cool, like most SM are, he'll set you up nicely for a decent gig.And always, always always, thank the man behind the board for helpin you do your show. And mention him by name..It's always the lil guy that doesnt get seen that makes the difference.
(Can ya tell that I've been a sound man myself once or twice in my life ;) )

Bingo...
:cool:

[lonster]

it's great to have a sound man, that helps alot. but if one doesn't then alot of things can contribute to playing too loud. the first step is to set the drums to the volume desired to the ROOM. take into account that hopefully alot more people are going to be present when the gig starts. another thing to look out for is if your two guitar players are playing as a team. does one turn down when the other is soloing?? when both are playing rythem do they find different tonal centers to enhance the sound or do they simply PLOD ALONG playing the same riff??