eastern music theory

[floydboy]

I'm interested in eastern music theory and how musicians over there approach music because I want to expand my knowledge of the field. Anyone have an idea of how eastern folks build chords as opposed to the western triad concept? Thanks.

[MilkMan12]

Haha, dude it is a lot more complicated than that. Its relearning everything-down to the word "triad" which is a word used to describe a chord in western music. THe word triad probably doesn't even exist since their chords may constitute only 2 notes.

Also the country will change the idea as well. Indian music, Asian, and Middle Eastern differ so much in terms of theory and even rhythm.

[Deji]

The thing is, eastern music doesn't really even use our system of 12 notes. IIRC, Indians for example, had 48 notes in one octave.

But other than that, I'm afraid I don't know much more about it, maybe JonR will.

[JonR]

It's a misconception that Indian music uses 48 notes in an octave. Even 24 (quarter-tones) is a misunderstanding. They use 12, same as us (or rather scales of 7 notes, as we do). But they use a lot of sophisticated melodic decoration, which can involve quarter-tone (approx) alterations of those 7.
But then that's only what we do when we play blues! ;)

The main difference between western and non-western music is that they don't use chords. At all. (With the exception of some African music, which uses simple I-IV-V sequences - but that may be based on European influence anyway.)
The music of most other cultures (outside the classical/pop culture of the European west) is based on melody, rhythm and timbre. Generally speaking, the music is so sophisticated in any or all of those areas, that to use chords would mess it up, restrict it too much.
The use of chords in western music means we have to simplify our scales, and keep the pitches rigidly "in tune" (according to a 12-tone equal tempered system), otherwise our intricate harmonic system won't work.
So what we gain in harmonic sophistication, we lose in melodic sophistication. (And you could say other cultures lose out by not having harmony - but they don't seem to miss it...)

In fact, harmony does occur in other music, but it's of a more accidental or irrelevant kind - just as, in the west, our music has various different timbres or textures, but we don't pay much attention to them.
Eg, we like the scratchy sound of a violin, or the rasp of a tenor sax (and we orchestrate our music accordingly), but we don't exactly theorise about timbre.
Indonesian gamelan music tunes its percussion gongs (etc) to odd non-harmonic intervals, because they kind of like the clashing that occurs when the sounds blend. But it doesn't make what we would call "chords" - we'd probably just think it all sounded "out of tune".

In Indian classical music (ragas), they use a background drone of a tonic root and 5th, all the way through. No chords or harmonic movement at all. But a whole lot happens with the melodic and rhythmic development, the formal structure and interplay between sitar and tabla, eg. It's at least as sophisticated as western classical music (or advanced jazz) - but in a totally different way. (The western music it's most like is "modal" jazz.)

And I don't pretend to know anything about Chinese or Japanese music... :rolleye: (oh, apart from their use of pentatonics - but I do know it's way more complicated than that ;) )

[Fizzed]

This is also a field that I have devoted (and am currently devoting) a great deal of time to.... and the best advice I have is to listen. Envelope yourself in a style of music for a while, and you will begin to fuse with it intrinsically.

Also, keep in mind that a great deal of traditional and ethnic music has origins within "the people"... sometimes written and played on instruments created by amateurs (the concept of a "professional" musician is relatively new in the great scheme of civilization... in many cultures, everybody participated in music as part of daily life) from what was available.... and made to do what sounded good to them.
Theory follows, it does not lead. (....usually.:) )

Also.... if I understand correctly (and please correct me if I don't), many Eastern styles make use of ragas or maqams.... a subject that this site seems to explain well: http://www.maqamworld.com/


Beyond this, though, I really can't say much more than JonR already has.

[lalaland]

It's a misconception that Indian music uses 48 notes in an octave.

Okay, but so is this:
They use 12, same as us (or rather scales of 7 notes, as we do). But they use a lot of sophisticated melodic decoration, which can involve quarter-tone (approx) alterations of those 7.

The number of shrutis I always hear is 36. Anyways, they do have that many notes, they just aren't all available for performance at any one time. Any and all tones have different shrutis, typically fixed according to the raga. And I'm pretty sure not a single one of them is actually a quarter tone - directly in between two notes. ;)


The use of chords in western music means we have to simplify our scales, and keep the pitches rigidly "in tune" (according to a 12-tone equal tempered system)

*out of tune*


In fact, harmony does occur in other music, but it's of a more accidental or irrelevant kind

Being in tune is harmony. That's the original meaning of harmony, as far as I can tell. Its just harmony between tones, not moving harmony of chords.


In Indian classical music (ragas), they use a background drone of a tonic root and 5th, all the way through. No chords or harmonic movement at all. But a whole lot happens with the melodic and rhythmic development, the formal structure and interplay between sitar and tabla, eg. It's at least as sophisticated as western classical music (or advanced jazz) - but in a totally different way. (The western music it's most like is "modal" jazz.)

100% agree.


And I don't pretend to know anything about Chinese or Japanese music... :rolleye: (oh, apart from their use of pentatonics - but I do know it's way more complicated than that ;) )

Ditto.

Peace,
Jamie

[Fendershredder]

Lol.

[JonR]

The number of shrutis I always hear is 36. Anyways, they do have that many notes, they just aren't all available for performance at any one time. Any and all tones have different shrutis, typically fixed according to the raga. And I'm pretty sure not a single one of them is actually a quarter tone - directly in between two notes. ;) OK, I was oversimplifying. :o
I was thinking of the "thats" in North Indian music, which have 7 notes. Any other "notes" would be decorations of those in the manner you're describing (I guess ;) ).

*out of tune*Exactly. That's why I put "in tune" (western concept of the notion) in quotes. ;)

Being in tune is harmony. That's the original meaning of harmony, as far as I can tell. Its just harmony between tones, not moving harmony of chords.OK, I think we're hair-splitting now. The "moving harmoiny of chords" is - IMO - the sense in which the word is most useful: the area in which western music became most developed.
You can of course have an implied harmony between melodic intervals. It's the distinction that matters here.
IOW, if there is "harmony" in non-western music, it's of a quite different kind and order to western chordal harmony.
(And of course, the OP's term "eastern" music covers any number of distinct cutures anyhow...