Tascam Analog 8-Track

[MattB]

Ok, so I'm in the "Stone Age" when it comes to recording devices. I've been using a Tascam analog 8-track for the last year or so for my home recording projects. Once I get the material recorded to the 8-track, I mix it down to a program I have on my computer and from there, I do the final "mastering" of the music.
I have just recently come across a problem concerning the 8-track. For example, I'll record something on track 1 (say, guitar). Then, once I begin to record something on track 2, the volume level for track one will automatically reduce. As soon as I press "Stop" for recording on track 2, the volume for track 1 will go right back up to where it's supposed to be. Before I start recording for track 2, I set track 1 at the volume I'd like it to be. Even though I don't mess with the actual volume slider for track 1, it seems that the "internal" volume of that track is reduced once I begin recording with track 2. The same goes for tracks 3 and 4, with 3 losing volume in the same manner as track 1. You get what I'm saying?? Anyone out there have any ideas/suggestions?? And please don't just tell me to go digital. :rolleye:

[crusty]

First two questions:
1. What model recorder is it?
and
2. Are you wired into a seperate mixer?

[MattB]

The model is the Tascam 424kIII

I am not using a seperate mixer.

This is my (current) set-up:
I have my electric guitar plugged in to a DigiTech RP50 effects processor (pedal). The cable that I usually have running from the RP50 to my amp, I instead plug directly into the track input on the Tascam. So, it goes like this: Guitar into RP50 input, RP50 output is connected to the 8-track. The RP50 has a built-in guitar cabinet/amp modulator, wherin if you were to ever find yourself in a postion where you only have a guitar and the RP50, but no amp, you could just connect the RP50 directly to a PA system and use the RP50's feature to emulate the effect of already playing through an amp. Ya dig? So, when it comes to recording, instead of connecting the RP50 to an amp and miking said amp, I just connect the RP50 directly into the Tascam and use the cabinet feature on the RP50, so it SOUNDS like I'm already playing through an amp.

On the first album that I recorded using my Tascam, I didn't come across any of the problems that I've mentioned in my previous post. Interestingly, I did not use the RP50 at all during the recording for that album (I didn't even own the RP50 at that time). What I did for that recording was just plug my guitar into my amp and run a cable from the amp's output into the Tascams input. For both recordings, both the first album and the one I'm working on now, I only use guitar and vocals (although on two tracks from this current recording I use a tin whistle and a flute). So far, it doesn't matter what intrument, voice, or whatever that I'm recording because I'll still lose volume in the other track...i.e. guitar has been recorded onto Track 1, I'm ready to add a vocal, guitar, or whatever else to Track 2. Once I hit "Record" on Track 2, Track 1 immediatley diminishes in volume. Same thing goes for Track 3 and 4. But, you know this already...

[crusty]

You say Tascam 424kIII do you mean 424mkIII? I've had a quick look at that manual.

Can you describe the recording steps you're taking

example:

1. plug into input #1 and record on track 1
2. plug into input #2 and record on track 2 while playing back track 1 by switching tape cueing on, panning fully left etc...

And how are you monitoring? - plugged in the phones jack or stereo out etc.

Those porta-studio thingys are pretty complex little beasts!

[Keith]

the question should be, when was the last time you had the tape heads Record and playback cleaned,demagnatised and re-aligned?
Sounds like one or both maybe out or in need of a good cleaning.
When did this start happening?

[MattB]

I bought one of those general cassette tape head cleaners a couple months ago (the kind where you apply a bit of liquid cleaner to a cassette tape included with the kit and then insert the tape into the player and push "play"). I used it once, but it didn't seem to do the trick. I live in Arizona, and things tend to get quite dusty, so I've tried to keep up with regularly "dusting" my 8-track with one of those air cans you can buy at a Wal-Mart. So, the only "cleaning" I've done thus far was with what I've just mentioned.

For an example, here are the steps I take for a recording...

1. Using my guitar and RP50 (mentioned in my previous post), I'll plug into the input for Track 1. I keep the pan at 12:00 (middle) for the actual recording, but I usually end up panning to the left or right later, depending on the final "mix" of all four tracks.

2. Once the guitar has been recorded to Track 1, let's say that I want to add a vocal to Track 2. I'll begin by cueing-up the guitar on Track 1 and playing that track. While the guitar in Track 1 is playing, I'll begin to record my vocal (or guitar, or whatever) onto Track 2. Like Track 1, I'll have the pan at 12:00. I also have the EQ's (high, mids, and low) all set to 12:00 as well. This goes for Track 1 as well.

3. The "problem" arises. Let's say that for Track 1, I ended-up recording a full minute's worth of guitar. And, let's assume that I don't want to begin recording my vocals (Track 2) until around the :30 second mark (about halfway through the guitar part). Track 1 has begun to play. As I'm approaching the :30 second mark (where, at that point I'll begin to record vocals), I hit "record". At that second, Track 1 diminishes in volume. And, Track 1 will continue playing at that lower volume for as long as Track 2 is "recording", regardless if I ended-up recording a vocal or not. As soon as I stop recording on Track 2, the volume in Track 1 will rise back up to it's original level. If you were to repeat these steps for Tracks 3 and 4 (just substitue Track 3 for Track 1, and so on), you would get the same problem.

As far as monitering goes, well, it's pretty archaic (sp?)...
I forget what you call these, but you know those stackable entertainment systems? You've got your CD player, a turntable, a radio, but these are all seperate and they're all are connected to a central unit. This central unit is where you turn the power on (for the entire system), control the volume, switch between the CD player, radio, turntable, etc, set EQ levels...I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Anyways, I found one of these "central units" laying in my girlfriend's garage. God knows how long it had been sitting there, and it's a pretty old unit (probably late 70's, early to mid-80's) that she probably picked up at a garage sale somewhere. For my speakers, I use an equally old pair of common speakers. These are attached to the "central unit" and I connect the Tascam's "Line Out" jacks to the central unit's input. The unit has a few different inputs, one for a turntable, tape player, etc. I forget which specific input I plug the Tascam into. I'm at school right now, so I can't just look behind me and check!

I did NOT have ANY of this equipment when I recorded my first album (mentioned in my previous post). I don't think that I even had a pair of headphones until mid-way through the recording process. If I wanted to playback anything, I'd just run a cable from the Tascam's headphone output to my guitar amp's input! Yikes.

I'm sure all of this information is just creating more questions than answers, but I REALLY appreciate your willingness to try to help me out!!! We just may not be able to solve this mystery, but perhaps we'll all learn a little something...

[crusty]

I think I know what your problem is. When you're recording all of your input selectors (at the top of each channel) should either be set to 'mic/line' or 'off' - never to 'tape'. The 'tape' position should only be used during mixdown. (I think) what's happening is you have one track set to 'tape' AND you have tape cueing using your effect2. When you start recording it cuts off the signal at the input (since you haven't 'armed' recording on that particular track), but you still get tape sound comming through the effect2/tape cue. So effectively the taped signal is comming into the mixer in two different places and is mixed together - to create an overall increase in volume (unity gain is it's technical name). When you hit record you are cutting off one of those sources, so the total sound drops, but one of the sources is still there - producing the effect you are experiencing.

[crusty]

one or both maybe out

All analog multitrack recording decks use a single rec/play head, there's no other way to sync playback with record. The unit in question is a cassette deck, and those rarely ever need head alignment. The degaussing(demagnetizing) is a good plan. You can pick up a degausser at an electronics/radio/audio supplier (call around in your area). The propper way to use one is to turn it on (usually just plug it in) several feet away from the deck, and slowly bring it to close to the head (standard cassette decks have two heads so get both) without touching it. Wave it arround close to the head, then slowly move it away to several feet away from the deck. I usually do this a couple of times for good measure. Make sure it's several feet away from the deck before turning it off. It's amazing how good clean, degaused heads can sound! To clean the heads I'd use head cleaner and Q-tips for best results. Make sure all the alcohol has evapourated before using the unit though.

[MattB]

I think you're on to something, Crusty! I did fail to mention what I do with the input selectors. Using the examples I had in my previous post, when I'm recording the guitar to Track 1, I have that track's input selector switched to "Mic/Line Input". Now, since I havn't recorded anything else to any of the other tracks, those track's input selectors are all on "Off". When it comes time for me to add my vocals to Track 2, I switch its input selector to "Mic/Line Input". With Track 1, I switch its selector over to "Tape". That's the only way (to my knowledge) that I'll be able to hear the guitar on Track 1 and be able to know when to begin recording my vocals. If for some reason, I happened to record something onto three tracks, I don't neccessarily have ALL of those three tracks switched to "Tape", i.e. I don't have each Track playing "through" the mix. I'll only have one track playing (usually a rythym guitar) so I'll know when to come in at a particular spot in the song.

By the way, I can really only record with four seperate tracks. If I wanted to utilize the other two tracks, I'd have to "Bump" something from the first four tracks.

Considering how much I've made of this whole situation on this forum, the actual result/noise reduction isn't THAT bad. It is noticible, but I've found some tricks that I can use to get rid of that. But, I'm really curious about what it is that people think is wrong with the damn thing. Keep your eyes peeled over at that forum where you can post your music (I forget the name of it), I'm going to try to put a song or two of mine that I've recorded thus far using the Tascam......

[crusty]

When it comes time for me to add my vocals to Track 2, I switch its input selector to "Mic/Line Input". With Track 1, I switch its selector over to "Tape".

I used to have a Tascam Porta1 which was also a four-track cassette recorder (it's been so long I forgot it was a Tascam!). Anyway, it was setup almost identical to the one you've got. I made the same mistake about overdubbing tracks. You can monitor the other tracks without switching the inputs to tape (switch them to off, or leave them set to mic/line). To hear those track you have to use the effect2/cue for each track. You also have to anable tape cue monitoring. The idea is that when you're recording you don't need the effects because you can add those when you mixdown. So you have the effect sends available to use for monitoring. Do you still have the manual? If not I can give you a link to a PDF version.

[MattB]

...No, I dont' have the manual. But, I do know where to find it online. I probably should take a good long look at it, because I've only quickly browsed over it so far. Go figure... :rolleye: