Still a bit confused..haha :)

[broken.]

Oh also one more thing. Does anyone have a chord chart? With some cool chords that are constant like the CAGED system.. I've noticed a lot are the same.. I know my own share of chords.. but I am sort of bored of playing the same barre chords. I guess I can make a chord wherever i please with the above information, but I am looking for somethign already done for me

[Jamie]

Broken,

This site helps me quite a bit. Maybe it will give you a fresh look at the 'ol fret board as well.



Chord Simulator

[broken.]

Oh thanks, by the way check the last post on page 1.. i tripled posted lol.. so the other stuff ison the other page still, what I realyl wanted to get checked out.

Thanks again, im going to explroe this thing now.

[JonR]

Originally Posted by broken.

Here I wrote it all out. I hope this is helpful, please point out any mistakes that I have made this is meant as a refrence for me. SO i sort of think I understand it now, when your playing a minor key you should use the minor modes, dorian phrygian and aeolian! But that doesnt explain to me when to use it, should I use a diffrent mode over every note or thats absurd. Theres gotta be a mode that has all the notes Im playing in it.. right?

There is. It's called the scale of the key. In fact, every mode of that scale has all the same notes in it. Normally, you can (and should) use one scale for a whole song: the scale of the key. Forget about modes.

Originally Posted by broken.

The major scale is what everything is derived from.

W W H W W W H

I ii iii IV V vi vii

Ionian Dorian Phrygian Lydian Mixolydian Aeolian Locrian

Major – Minor – Minor – Major – Major – Min – Diminished

C D E F G A B C (0 sharps)

Good so far.

Originally Posted by broken.

C# D# F F# G# A# C (5 sharps)

Nope. The rule you're forgetting is that a scale must have one, and only one, of each note letter.
I mean, it will sound right if you play those notes, but you should spell the scale in one of 2 ways:

C# major = C# D# E# F# G# A# B# (7 sharps) (F has to be called "E#" otherwise you have no E and 2 Fs - same with C/B#)
Db major = Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C (5 flats)

Originally Posted by broken.

D# F G G# A# C D (3 sharps)

See above. In this case, the D# major scale requires double sharps, so you can forget that one. Call it Eb major:
Eb F G Ab Bb C D

Originally Posted by broken.

F G A A# C D E (1 sharps)

A# should be Bb. So F major scale has 1 flat.

Originally Posted by broken.

F# G# A# B C# D# F (5 sharps)

F should be E#. F# major scale has 6 sharps.

Originally Posted by broken.

G# A# C C# D# F G (4 sharps)

Should be Ab major (4 flats): Ab Bb C Db Eb F G

Originally Posted by broken.

A# C D D# F G A (2 sharps)

Bb major = Bb C D Eb F G A (2 flats)

Originally Posted by broken.

C maj – C E G
D min – D F A
E min – E G B
F maj – F A C
G maj – G B D
A min – A C E
B dim – B D F

All good - and G, D, A, E and B are good too - but you need to try again with the chords for F#, and the flat keys: F Bb Eb Ab Db (as above).
And there are a couple of keys you forgot (no big deal ):
Gb major (6 flats, same sound as F# major)
Cb major (7 flats, same sound as B major)

IOW, you understand all the other rules right, you just need to sort out the enharmonics (when you need to use a # or a b, for consistency).

The CIRCLE OF 5THS is the essential reference tool you need:
http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/circle.html

[kernix]

Originally Posted by broken.

I said I had read all the lessons. I understand what you are saying. True I haven't written down all the chords and stuff.. I'll probably do that right now.

I guess Im going to have to learn the fretboard inside out.. better get crackin.

One thing I would like to clear up. So when you guys say to me B phrygian I look in what major scale B is the thrid note (since the third is phrygian) so that means G major. So when you say to play in B phrygian you are really saying G major... ? Is that correct? But if thats the case why is it a minor and why does it sound saddish? If its still major.. is it just the way the notes are arranged?

It's the notes you emphasize - you have to remember - the notes in G major builds G maj, C maj, D, maj as well as Am, Bm, & Em - and F#dim - imagine an extended G section - 8 measures of a G or Gmaj7 chord - playing G major will give you the bright happy sound - imagine playing then 8 measures of Am - playing G major (A Dorian) will give a minor sound as will playing G major over Bm or Em - dorian's minor is a little "snappier" than aeolian's or phrygian's minor because of the major 6th - or Dorian is characterized by b3, 6 & b7 - whereas Aeolian has a b3, b7 and a b6 and phrygian has b3, b6 & b7 like aeolian but also a b9

Lydian: 1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7
Ionian: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Mixolydian: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7

Dorian: 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7
Aeolian: 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7
Phrygian: 1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7

Locrian: 1, b2, b3, 4, b5, b6, b7

just keep it simple - major chords are upbeat sounding with the 1, 3, 5 - minor chords are 1, b3, 5 - and that b3 just evokes a different sound that is generally construed as sad or somber - why that is, how that is - no clue and it doesn't matter just know it

[broken.]

Thanks a tonne for correcting me JonR I'll just take care of that, and now say for example I wanted all the 7th chords I'd just add the 7th note to each one. For example: Cmaj7 = C E G B and thats good from then on.

So with the above the notes that make up the chords are also the notes that should be in the scale, so that it will sound goood is that right? Im beginning to see something correct me if im wrong. But the key of E, E F# G# A B C# Ddim has those notes, but that also means that while Im that key I should be playing the same Chords as well, E maj, F#min A, C#min ... that would make sense then that the scale has to be based around those notes and if that is the case then the Emajor scale would work. I don't understand now why the E Aeolian also works, or the Pentatonic works over that very well becaus eI am not neccesarrily using the C#min.

Kernix, I understand what you are sayign until you get to the measures I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

8 measures of a G or Gmaj7 chord - playing G major will give you the bright happy sound - imagine playing then 8 measures of Am - playing G major (A Dorian) will give a minor sound as will playing G major over Bm or Em - dorian's minor is a little "snappier" than aeolian's or phrygian's minor because of the major 6th - or Dorian is characterized by b3, 6 & b7 - whereas Aeolian has a b3, b7 and a b6 and phrygian has b3, b6 & b7 like aeolian but also a b9

I'm not quite sure what you mean.
I do however understand how the basic triads are built, the diminished the minor augmented and major.

Thanks again guys. Life savers

[broken.]

Alright JonR, I re-did it with the correct Enharmonics, at least I think.
I don't understand why F has to be changed. Check it out:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12...everything.doc

[JonR]

Originally Posted by broken.

Alright JonR, I re-did it with the correct Enharmonics, at least I think.
I don't understand why F has to be changed. Check it out:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12...everything.doc

You corrected the scales, but not the chords. E.g., in the Db major scale, I is Db, ii is Ebm, etc....

Do you mean the F major scale? The 4th note needs to be Bb, not A#, so you get one of each note letter: F G A Bb C D E.
Enharmonics matter because that's how we count and name intervals, and interval names give their names to chords.
E.g. F-A is a "3rd" because A is the 3rd note up from F (which is "1st").
F-A is a "major 3rd" - so F-A# would be an "augmented 3rd".
What we need is a "perfect 4th", which is F-Bb (B being the 4th letter up from F).
It's pretty simple really, if you just start from the letters, and follow that one-of-each-letter rule (while keeping to the W-W-H-W-W-W-H formula).
That automatically sorts out which are the flat keys and which are sharps.
You just get an overlap at the bottom of the circle (of 5ths), where there are 3 pairs of enharmonic keys:

B major (5 sharps) = Cb major (7 flats)
F# major (6 sharps) = Gb major (6 flats)
C# major (7 sharps) = Db major (5 flats)

Normally people use the simpler one. So B is more common than Cb, and Db is more common than C#. But the other enharmonic spellings do occur occasionally.
E.g., if a piece of music begins in the key of C# minor (4 sharps), it might change to C# major (7 sharps). That would make more sense to a musician reading it - and would need less signs and symbols in the notation - than a change to Db major (5 flats).

[broken.]

You corrected the scales, but not the chords. E.g., in the Db major scale, I is Db, ii is Ebm, etc....

Yes, the reason is mainly because I think in Sharps, I've always thought in sharps.. it will be alright if I leave it like that..?


I have another question here.. now say I wanted to make the minor scales, since all that I have posted before was the major keys.

So for example:

C maj – C E G
D min – D F A
E min – E G B
F maj – F A C
G maj – G B D
A min – A C E
B dim – B D F


If I wanted Dm.. do I just start on the Dm and do the exact same thing? I've tried that and what I get is:

Dm
Emm?.. how do I assign them minors or majors.. as in the whole W W H W W W H sort of deal.

[zog]

the pattern for the natural minor scale is W H W W H W W or you could simply flat the 3 6 7 of the major scale. For example C major is
C D E F G A B and C minor is C D Eb F G Ab Bb

[kernix]

broken

measures = bars - do you know what 4/4 is? 4/4 is when one measure has 4 beats that equal quater notes - or "a one-two-three-four..."

What I meant by 8 bars/measures of G was just image a real long section where only a G or Gmaj7 was being played - playing the G major scale over that results in a snappy upbeat sound - a major mode, specifically G Ionian- get it?

[broken.]

Oh so the Dminor scale wouldn't be started out of the C major scale and just moving one over?


So I would take the Major scale of D and then just apply the W H WW H W W pattern to it?

If thats so, then what does ...


C maj – C E G
D min – D F A
E min – E G B
F maj – F A C
G maj – G B D
A min – A C E
B dim – B D F


Dm
Em
Fmaj
Gmaj
Amin
Bdim
Cmaj
Dm

What does just starting from the Dm in the C major scale give you.. i thought that wast he Dminor scale..lol.. wow.

[broken.]

Oh yea Kernix I get it now. Thanks

[kernix]

Originally Posted by broken.

Oh so the Dminor scale wouldn't be started out of the C major scale and just moving one over?


So I would take the Major scale of D and then just apply the W H WW H W W pattern to it?

If thats so, then what does ...


C maj – C E G
D min – D F A
E min – E G B
F maj – F A C
G maj – G B D
A min – A C E
B dim – B D F


Dm
Em
Fmaj
Gmaj
Amin
Bdim
Cmaj
Dm

What does just starting from the Dm in the C major scale give you.. i thought that wast he Dminor scale..lol.. wow.

No.

First off, you should learn the relative minor to any major chord/scale - in C major, A minor is the relative minor - or the chord built on the 6th degree - or you can say that Am is the relative minor to C maj - you'll often see the maj/rel min relationships separated with a "\"

Cb maj / Ab min
Gb maj / Eb min
Db maj / Bb min
Ab maj / F min
Eb maj / C min
Bb maj / G min
F maj / Dm
C maj / A min
G maj / E min
D maj / B min
A maj / F# min
E maj / C# min
B maj / G# min
F# maj / D# min
C# maj / A# min


or just: C/Am

And there are 3 minor scales (not counting scales like the minor pentatonic or blues sale) - Natural Minor, Harmonic Minor, Melodic Minor

Natural Minor - is the mode of the major scale built on the 6th degree - is defined by a b3, b6 & b7 - e.g. in C major (C-D-E-F-G-A-B), the relative minor ot C major is A minor and the A Natural Minor scale is A-B-C-D-E-F-G - see the b3, b6 & b7?

Natural Minor
So the chords used in A natural minor would be the same chords availaible to you in C major but sarting/stopping or Am: Am, Am7, Bdim, Bm7b5, Cmaj, Cmaj7, Dm, Dm7, Em, Em7, Fmaj, Fmaj7, G maj, G7 - e.g. All ALong the Watchtower is Am-F-G-F and back to Am - or Black Magic Woman: Dm-Am-Dm-Gm-Dm-Dm-Am-Dm - or I Shot the Sheriff with I think follows a simple 12-bar blues pattern in Gm with 3 chords: Gm, Cm, & Dm - the pattern for a Natural minor is then W-H-W-W-H-W-W-W - or 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7

Harmonic Minor
...is a Natural Minor shale with a major 7th interval instead of a b7 - or 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-7 - or in A Harmonic Minor - A-B-C-D-E-F-G# and the chords built on those degrees are Am, Am-maj7, Bdim, Bm7b5, C+, Cmaj7#5, Dm, Dm7, E, E7, Fmaj, Fmaj7, G#dim, G#dim7

Melodic Minor
...is a Harmonic Minor scale with a maj 6th interval or - A-B-C-D-E-F#-G#: Am, Am-maj7, Bm, Bm7, C+, Cmaj7#5, D, D7, E, E7, F#dim, F#m7b5, G#dim, G#m7b5, G#7alt

So that's why I asked if you worked out all the chords in all the scales, how to build different triad types, etc. Get 12 folders and write out the notes in the major scale (& natural minor scale), the notes in the associated major & minor pentatonics in each major scale, the triads & 7th's, ..... - then do the same for Harmonic & Melodic minors

So
A Natural Minor: A-B-C-D-E-F-G
A Harmonic Minor: A-B-C-D-E-F-G#
A Melodic Minor: A-B-C-D-E-F#-G#

Got it? Most songs in a minor key "borrow" chords from 3 minor scales, or some combo of 2 of them: e.g.

House of the Rising Sun is a combo of A Natural, A Harmonic & A melodic minors: Am-C-D-F-Am-E-Am...

Hotel California is a combo of B Harmonic, Melodic & Natural minors: Bm-F#-A-E-G-D-Em-F# ~ G-D-Em-Bm7-G-D-Em-F#

Greensleeves is a combo of A Natural & Harmonic minors: Am-G-Am-E-Am-C-G-Am-E-C-G-Am-E-Am

Babe I'm Gonna Leave You is a combo A harmonic, melodic & Natural: Am-Am7-D7-D9-F6-Fmaj13-E

London Calling is an interesting E Phrygian: Em-C-G-Em-G-Em-D

Also check out I heard it through the Grapevine (Dm), Stariway to Heaven (Am), Sultans of Swing (Dm), Wayfaring Stranger (Am), and even more examples in jazz

[broken.]

OK wow thanks Kernix..

I thought I did something like that before.. all the majors.. or something. So you say 12 folders. I gotta get that then.. alright im in a rush right now.. so i'll ask some questions when I get back..lol.