Need help naming a chord please

[Lazy Bee]

It looks like this.

E A D G B E

4 x 4 5 5 x

Unless my wires are crossed....I'm playing an arrangement written in C#m

One section is in the relative major of that key. Coming out of major - and moving back into the minor progression...I'm using this chord as a hinge....That's red neck picker lingo btw.

Here's the move

E A D G B E

x 2 4 4 4 2 - B

x o 2 4 2 0 - Aadd9

4 x 4 5 5 x - ?

4 x 4 4 4 x - G#m7

resoves to...

x 4 6 4 5 4 - C#m7

Correct answer wins an all expense paid fishing trip to Smyrna Tennessee. Well...I'll be very grateful at least.

[AcousticShred]

I would call it a G#7#5. Its a very tense chord which kind of sounds like a suspension that would resolve to just a G#7 then to a C# major or minor chord.

[texastito]

I've used this site countless times to figure out chords

http://www.michaelhogg.btinternet.co.uk/gce/

Click on the "search" button, and then simply click on the notes on the corresponding frets and it'll show you exactly what chord it it. I clicked on the frets you gave, and it spit out the G#7#5 as acousticshred mentioned.

[CDguitar]

Originally Posted by Lazy Bee

It looks like this.

E A D G B E

4 x 4 5 5 x

Unless my wires are crossed....I'm playing an arrangement written in C#m

One section is in the relative major of that key. Coming out of major - and moving back into the minor progression...I'm using this chord as a hinge....That's red neck picker lingo btw.

Here's the move

E A D G B E

x 2 4 4 4 2 - B

x o 2 4 2 0 - Aadd9

4 x 4 5 5 x - ?

4 x 4 4 4 x - G#m7

resoves to...

x 4 6 4 5 4 - C#m7

Correct answer wins an all expense paid fishing trip to Smyrna Tennessee. Well...I'll be very grateful at least.

It's the V7alt of C#m7

G#7(#5) / C#m7

The G#min7 can be thought of as the same chord as the G#alt but the new name
could be G#7(#9,omit 3rd) it gets to retane the function of its predecesor.

Nice progression. I'd be curious were it went after the C#m7.
Back to the B?

Dude, I live in Sonoma County 45 north of San Francisco, in the Redwood Empire,
never muggy, air conditioned, (way toooo expensive) But it's the greatest weather
in the country.

Thanks but I'll take the $$$ lol

[Lazy Bee]

Originally Posted by CDguitar

I'd be curious were it went after the C#m7.
Back to the B?

I stay minor at this point.

C#m7 / F#m7 - G#m7 / C#m7 / D#m7b5 - G7 /

You can hear the tune in Showcase at this link.

http://jsguitarforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70033

Or go directly to my Soundclick site and hear it at

http://www.soundclick.com/jerrydean

Soundclick seems to be on the fritz today though. I was in Showcase trying to listen to some things earlier and it wouldn't come up. Good ol Soundclick!


Thanks for the info guys! Really appreciate it.

[CDguitar]

You meant G#7 right?

It all points to being in the Relative Minor of E major.

...I......II......III......IV.....V....VI.....VII. ..........I
Emaj7 F#m7 G#m7 Amaj7 B7 C#m7 D#m7(b5) Emaj7

in IV's

....I.....IV.......VII..........III......VI.....II ......V......I
Emaj7 Amaj7 D#m7(b5) G#m7 C#m7 F#m7 B7....Emaj7

See the cluster of minor chords that make up your song?

...I..........IV...........V
C#m7..|..F#m7..|..G#m7..|

We have the I IV V in minor chords
as well as the relative major I IV V chords - E, A, and B

This can all be reduced like this

........................II...................V.... ...............I
......................F#m7...............B7....... ..........Emaj7
subs................Amaj7..............D#m7(b5)... ....G#m7
sub............................................... .............C#m7

II and IV can be used for the same function - exchangeable

Same with V and VII

And I, III and VI

It's like there is only three sounds we go after, the II V I or the IV V I ,if you use A instead of F#m

The D#m7(b5) makes a fine B9th chord.

Good way to work with all chords in a key.



...

[Lazy Bee]

Originally Posted by CDguitar

You meant G#7 right?
...

Uhhhhh...yes.

Great post DC thanks!

[JonR]

Originally Posted by Lazy Bee

I stay minor at this point.

C#m7 / F#m7 - G#m7 / C#m7 / D#m7b5 - G7 /

You can hear the tune in Showcase at this link.

http://jsguitarforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70033

Or go directly to my Soundclick site and hear it at

http://www.soundclick.com/jerrydean

Nice playing!

As CDguitar says, the chord you use to modulate back to C# minor after the E major section (your original question) is G#7#5, a standard alteration of the V chord in key of C# minor. It makes little difference that you follow it with what looks like a passing G#m7 before the C#m. In this context, the minor 3rd (B) could be a #9 on an altered G#7.

In the early part of the tune - sequence in the above quote - you have a classic jazz ii-V-i:
D#m7b5 = ii
G#7(b9) = V
C#m = i
In the lead, you're playing the b9 (A) on top of the G#7.

Assuming you haven't tried this, it would be worth you exploring the jazz altered scale over that chord, instead of the usual C# minor/E major scale you used on that recording - just to see if you like it! (You don't have to... )
For G#7 this would be the A melodic minor scale., The difference from E major/C# minor is that you'd have C and D natural instead of C# and D#; the other 5 notes are the same.
It resolves very nicely in to C# minor - ideally C# melodic minor, but if you're moving on into that C#m7-F#m7-etc sequence, you'd need C# aeolian (E major).

Here's a little A melodic minor lick for a G#7 chord, resolving to C#m:

G#7(alt)               C#m
--7--5-----------------|--------------------------
--------5--------------|------------------------
-(5)-------5---7-5-4---|----------------------------
-(4)-----------------7-|-6--------------------------
-----------------------|(4)------------------------
-(4)-------------------|---------------------------

[Lazy Bee]

Originally Posted by JonR

Thanks Jon, that means a lot to me coming from you.

Ureka!! Man you allways have a way of helping me "get it"

Honestly I haven't tried anything else. I was disappointed with the soloing. Aside from a passing note, I was stuck. So I stayed with the major scale. I do that all the time. Probably why I dont like to solo much. ie "ignorance" They all sound so.... "happy" The last couple days I've been thinking that I really want to set down and find other scales to use. I know this song has to to be open to some serious coolness. Thanks for the direction.

What I'm seeking in this composition/exercise is to maximize the minor/tense feel over the minor progressions. Then, maximize the lift/release over the major section. I want to go from darkness to lght, if you get my drift. Any other suggestions?

[JonR]

Originally Posted by Lazy Bee

What I'm seeking in this composition/exercise is to maximize the minor/tense feel over the minor progressions. Then, maximize the lift/release over the major section. I want to go from darkness to lght, if you get my drift. Any other suggestions?

That altered scale on the dominant is probably the main suggestion I'd have. It adds tension to the minor key.
You could also use C# melodic minor on the C#m chord - but you'd need to make it a C#m6, C#madd9 or C#m(maj7), and that may not be the sound you're after. (I quite like the unfocussed aeolian sound you have at the moment, where the focus is C#m, but the chords shift around without really settling. Making the C#m a melodic minor chord would confirm C#m as a more secure tonic.)

Modulating to the relative major (as you do) is fine as a classic dark>light move.
One nice way of going from darkness to light is to use a minor key ii-V to change to a major tonic. Using your two keys (C#m>E), this makes for some increasing darkness at the end of the C# minor sequence.
You'd need to use F#m7b5-B7alt at some point. F#m7b5 (Am/F#) has a lot in common with G#7alt, as it happens:

G#7#5b9 F#m7b5
--5----------5-----------
--5----------5-----------
--5----------5-----------
--4----------4-----------
-----------------------
--4---------------------

So you could move from that to an altered B7:

B7#5#9 or B7#5#b9
--3----------8-----------
--3----------8-----------
--2----------8-----------
--1----------7-----------
--2--------------------
-------------7-----------

...and then to an Emaj7 or E69. Mellow-roonie! (as Slim Gaillard might have said...)

Over the E chord, try using E lydian instead of E major. The #4 (A#) is a brighter sound, and sits nicely against the maj7.
Or stick to the major pentatonic, as those added notes (maj7, #4) can make it maybe too wistful/melancholy (bright, but still bittersweet). Major pentatonic is sturdier stuff!

Another option for dark>bright (maybe even more effective) is to go to the parallel major. C# major from C# minor. Much more of a (nice) surprise - IMO - than modulating to the relative major.
Just follow your G#7(#5) chord with C# major, and go on to a sequence using F# and G# (IV and V), wit plenty of melodic emphasis on the new major 3rd (E#).
Bring it back to C# minor with the usual D#m7b5-G#7alt, or maybe A-G#.

[CDguitar]

Another great altered scale for the V chord is the G#dim1/2 whole

.......G#7alt.............C#m7
|-------------------|---|
|-------------------|---|
|-------------------|---|
|---------------3-4-|-6-|
|-----------5-6-----|---|
|---4-5-7-8---------|---|

Jazz (rule)

You can add altered tension to any V7 chord going to the I chord.

Altered notes b9, #9, #11/b5, +5/b13

[dickiebong]

I would call it Fred.....

[Lazy Bee]

Originally Posted by JonR

That altered scale on the dominant is probably the main suggestion I'd have. It adds tension to the minor key.
You could also use C# melodic minor on the C#m chord - but you'd need to make it a C#m6, C#madd9 or C#m(maj7), and that may not be the sound you're after. (I quite like the unfocussed aeolian sound you have at the moment, where the focus is C#m, but the chords shift around without really settling. Making the C#m a melodic minor chord would confirm C#m as a more secure tonic.)

Modulating to the relative major (as you do) is fine as a classic dark>light move.
One nice way of going from darkness to light is to use a minor key ii-V to change to a major tonic. Using your two keys (C#m>E), this makes for some increasing darkness at the end of the C# minor sequence.
You'd need to use F#m7b5-B7alt at some point. F#m7b5 (Am/F#) has a lot in common with G#7alt, as it happens:

G#7#5b9 F#m7b5
--5----------5-----------
--5----------5-----------
--5----------5-----------
--4----------4-----------
-----------------------
--4---------------------

So you could move from that to an altered B7:

B7#5#9 or B7#5#b9
--3----------8-----------
--3----------8-----------
--2----------8-----------
--1----------7-----------
--2--------------------
-------------7-----------

...and then to an Emaj7 or E69. Mellow-roonie! (as Slim Gaillard might have said...)

Over the E chord, try using E lydian instead of E major. The #4 (A#) is a brighter sound, and sits nicely against the maj7.
Or stick to the major pentatonic, as those added notes (maj7, #4) can make it maybe too wistful/melancholy (bright, but still bittersweet). Major pentatonic is sturdier stuff!

Another option for dark>bright (maybe even more effective) is to go to the parallel major. C# major from C# minor. Much more of a (nice) surprise - IMO - than modulating to the relative major.
Just follow your G#7(#5) chord with C# major, and go on to a sequence using F# and G# (IV and V), wit plenty of melodic emphasis on the new major 3rd (E#).
Bring it back to C# minor with the usual D#m7b5-G#7alt, or maybe A-G#.

"Mellow Roonie" Oh baby I'm stealing this immediately (with your permission of course). That will become the title of this little ditty. I allway title my posts in Showcase. I drew a blank on this one.

Thanks so much John, all this off the top of your head....mystifying to this cowboy chord junkie!

[Lazy Bee]

Originally Posted by CDguitar

Another great altered scale for the V chord is the G#dim1/2 whole

.......G#7alt.............C#m7
|-------------------|---|
|-------------------|---|
|-------------------|---|
|---------------3-4-|-6-|
|-----------5-6-----|---|
|---4-5-7-8---------|---|

Jazz (rule)

You can add altered tension to any V7 chord going to the I chord.

Altered notes b9, #9, #11/b5, +5/b13

Thanks DC...great to have another teacher around!

[Lazy Bee]

Originally Posted by dickiebong

I would call it Fred.....

Well now, that'll be stuck in my head for a while. It'll look good on the chart too...